The Talk Ch. 04

Sue held up her purse and then pointed in the direction of the back doorway. "Tally ho, let's go, bro!"

They left quickly and finally Kathy and I were alone in the house. She still sat at the dinner table, her dinner unfinished in front of her, and looked at me with a calculating gaze. Finally, she said, "All right, Paul. Give. What's been eating at you?"

I reclaimed my seat at the dinner table, at the other end opposite from her, and said, "I guess it was too much for me to hope that you wouldn't notice the funk I've been in, huh?"

"Oh, I wouldn't say it would've been too much," Kathy said guardedly, "but it was definitely unrealistic. I noticed it the first night I got home. Is it money? Are we in some sort of trouble?"

I shook my head. "No, money isn't a problem, but I'll hazard a guess at saying that, yes, we're probably in trouble."

"What kind of trouble?" she asked with concern. In that brief pause, real worry crossed her features and she asked, "It isn't medical is it?"

Again, I shook my head. "No, it's not medical. Honey, rather than play Twenty Questions all night long, just pipe down and let me get this out. Okay?"

Kathy nodded respectfully. "All right. Start when you're ready and I'll keep quiet until you're through. Whatever it is, I'm sure we can figure it out."

I valiantly stifled a laugh at that, but part of me dearly hoped that she was right. I took a long, deep breath and asked, "Remember that talk we all had a few weeks ago, back when Dave told us about his experimental use of dope? The weird talk afterwards, with the kids?"

Kathy closed her eyes as she searched her memory for a second or two and then opened them as she nodded. "Incest. Yes, I remember it."

"Good. Okay. Now... that night we all sort of explored the technical and intellectual aspects of the topic, but none of us ever really talked about how it made us feel, did we?"

Again, Kathy closed her eyes to review her memory and shook her head. "No, I guess we didn't. Does this have something to do with Sue's tick incident? Are you... have you got... feelings for our daughter?"

I held my hand up in a halting motion. "One thing at a time, Kathy, Please. Bear with me here. First I need to know how that talk made you feel. Honestly. Let's table everything else for a moment and just focus on that. Please?"

Kathy narrowed her eyes at me. I could tell that she wanted an answer to her question, and she definitely deserved an answer, but before we could progress I felt that I needed to find out where her head was at on the whole topic of incest in general. The important thing was NOT my attraction to our daughter, but the fact that our kids were fucking each other under our noses- and that was something Kathy still had no clue about, something she needed to know, more than anything else. She could see the seriousness in my eyes and somehow realized that her question, while important, was the least of my concerns at that time, so she relented and allowed me to keep the floor. "Okay," she capitulated and then paused. "How did I feel about it? While I can understand the intellectual reasons FOR it, I can't honestly say that I approve of it. You, of all people, should know that there would be all kinds of psychological backlash in a situation like that. If we're talking about our family, I'm pretty sure that things would adjust in a healthy way, but there'd still be... changes, and I really don't think I'd welcome those changes with open arms." She crossed her arms across her chest and said, "You ARE attracted to Sue, aren't you?"

"Kathy," I said, "PLEASE. Can you just let me get through this my way and not bulldoze the conversation? There's more at play here than you can imagine."

"Well," Kathy said haughtily and obviously annoyed to be rebuffed, "get to it, then. What could be MORE important than you wanting to bring incest into the family, huh?"

I controlled my breathing then, closed my eyes and counted down from ten to regain my equilibrium. When I was sure that I had found my center again, I looked at her and said, "For starters, I never said that I WANT to bring it into the family. Secondly, it doesn't matter because it's already here."

Kathy almost jumped out of her chair in sudden anger and slammed her palms down on the dinner table, which made her dinner plate and silverware bounce loudly from the impact. "WHAT?! GOD DAMN IT, PAUL! YOU BASTARD!"

I held up my hands quickly in a defensive posture. "WHOA! Hold on! NOT me, okay? It's Sue and Dave, honey. The KIDS!"

Kathy's mouth snapped shut, as though she'd just been kicked in the gut, and slumped back in her chair, her face a study in stunned surprise. "what?" she whispered.

Certain that I now had her full attention, I told her everything about the day that I discovered our kids having sex. A few times in the middle of the story, Kathy gasped out loud and even started to cry, but she held her tongue and waited for me to finish. I told her about my reluctance to tell her, about how confused I felt over the whole situation and how I wasn't totally certain that our kids would actually go to the movies tonight or make off for a hotel room- $40 would be just enough to rent a room for the night or even a few hours and both kids were certainly smart enough to pull it off without a hitch. "I'm SO sorry I didn't tell you sooner, honey," I said, "but PLEASE consider how twisted I've been feeling inside over this! I don't think either one of us wants to break up the family, as I already told you. SOMETHING has to be done and decided about this and I need your help."

Kathy threw her hands up in the air in frustration, caught up in the heat of her emotions. "So what do you propose, *honey*? Just let them continue fucking each other, maybe? Or- or, I know! We can join in the fun! What do you say, stud? I've seen the way you look at her. And I've definitely seen the way that she looks at-"

"STOP IT!" I shouted at her. The abruptness of my own voice surprised even me and we both sat at the dinner table as the silence engulfed us. After a few moments of a shared, stunned silence, I spoke in softer tones. "Kathy, we can't afford to lose our heads over this. The kids are pretty much adults now. Both are over 18 and Sue's about to graduate from high school. They're starting to make decisions for themselves as grown-ups. We can either help them or hinder them. But we have to decide NOW. And we have to be united in whatever we decide. I've been beating my head against the wall for a week trying to figure this out and, sweetheart, I CAN'T do it alone. HELP me. Please. But don't shout at me."

Kathy rested her head in her hands and sobbed for a moment. I wanted to stand up, go to her and hold her, but for some reason I remained glued to my seat. Something within me made it very clear that Kathy had to struggle through her emotions alone on this one, that she had to find her own way out of the confusion. I waited quietly, patiently and lovingly until, finally and mercifully, the love of my life looked up at me with stern resolution set into her features and her posture straight. "Okay," she said with a shaky voice. "Okay. What are our options here?" The storm had passed a lot quicker than I'd expected.

I shook my head and shrugged. "I don't really know," I answered honestly. "For now, the kids aren't doing anything- at least, not that *I* know about. So I've bought us a brief respite, but I don't know how long that'll last."

Kathy nodded in agreement, a clear sign that she was now coming out of her confusion and thinking about the problem more collectedly. "To say nothing of the fact that they're teenagers. If they WANT to continue doing this, they will, no matter what we say."

"Right. What's more is, if we give them any ultimatums or flat-out denials, they'll more than likely rebel. We've got a very thin wire to walk on here, hon, and if we're not careful, the whole family could fall apart within weeks or even days."

"Are you saying we should let them continue?"

"I don't know," I answered. "Yes. No. Maybe, with certain conditions affixed. I honestly don't know. All I DO know is what my training as a psychologist is telling me and it's saying that we're holding a hot potato right now."

"All right," Kathy said reasonably. "Let's go through the options, one at a time. What happens if we say no?"

"They won't be happy about it," I said quickly. "Sue will probably understand our reasons and accept it, but she'll end up resenting us for it. Dave might get angry and feel like we're trying to control his life."

"And he'd be right!" Kathy said hotly.

I leveled a calming gaze at my wife. "Honey, Dave doesn't feel any better about the situation than we do. Don't forget that. He doesn't WANT to break up the family, but he's on the path to becoming his own man and he will and SHOULD defend his right to make his own choices- even if they're the wrong ones. He'd get upset over the principle of the matter, not the fact of it."

Sufficiently chided, Kathy nodded glumly in agreement. "I know," she said more softly. "I'm just... pissed, I guess. I never saw this coming, Paul. Not in a million years. But I guess, after that talk we all had, I probably SHOULD have."

"Don't you think I've felt the same way?" I asked. "I've probably asked myself a thousand times what we might have done wrong or how we might have failed them. I wracked my brain for DAYS on that one and you know what? I couldn't think of a single thing we did wrong for and with them. In all other respects, honey, our kids are terrific. All things considered, we're lucky to have them. Maybe this thing is like some sort of parenthood karma- something HAS to go wrong with kids, in one way or another, and maybe THIS situation is it. They're perfect in every other way but this one. But you know what else? In a way, I'd rather it be THIS than a drug overdose or vehicular manslaughter, y'know?"

Kathy sighed heavily. "I know. I guess I just let it get out of perspective. Kids eventually end up breaking laws, sure. But why THIS law, of all the laws in the land, Paul? Why THIS one?"

I shook my head. "I don't know, sweetheart, but at least no one's life is in danger. No matter what, I have GOT to keep that in the back of my mind."

"All right," she said. "So we run the risk of alienating our kids if we forbid them from doing this anymore. And what about allowing them to go on? What happens then?"

"Well, Sue's taking birth control and neither of them has been too terribly sexually active, so the risk of STD's is pretty low. They'd probably enjoy the hell out of it, but that leaves us in a strange situation. I mean, honey, imagine waking up at night to the sound of our kids fucking each other. And, believe me, they CAN get pretty loud."

Kathy visibly shuddered at the idea and closed her eyes in order to concentrate. "Ugh," she said finally. But she sneaked a look at me. "But what about you?" she asked. "Can YOU deal with it?"

I frowned at that question. I hadn't yet told her of the masturbation session I had immediately after I got done talking with the kids. I don't think I ever intended to because, frankly, I felt too damned guilty over it. "Well," I said slowly, "as long as you're there with me, I'm sure we can come up with a few ideas on how to drown out the sounds of it. Hmm?"

Kathy rolled her eyes in exasperation. "Are you kidding me, Paul? If we have sex while our kids are doing the same thing with each other just down the hall, I'm not sure I'd be able to concentrate, let alone ENJOY myself." She put a hand to her forehead and sighed dejectedly. "Oh, God, I can't believe I just said that. Ghah! I can't believe we're actually *entertaining* this idea!"

I got up and sat next to her, where Susan had been seated during dinner, and held her hand in mine. "Okay. So neither staunch denial nor heartfelt approval will work. That leaves us with conditional acceptance. They can do it, but there's got to be rules for them to follow. I've already got some ideas, but I'd like to hear yours first." When I laced my fingers with her own our eyes met and I offered as supportive a look as I could muster. This was not going to be easy for either of us, but we were agreed that it was at least better than losing our family altogether.

"Not while we're here," she said readily.

"Agreed. Too distracting, too weird and too creepy. Next?"

"They've got to pursue other people," she suggested. "Sex with each other shouldn't be considered a long-term thing. THAT isn't healthy."

I thought about it for a minute. That stipulation, while noble at its core, would probably cause some waves in the future. "I'm not sure that would go over well," I hedged. "How about... we *encourage* them to date other people and start other relationships? We can't guarantee that they'll find their life mates, but we should help to foster a belief that they CAN. If we force them to date other people, that might impair their own emotional growth later on. They need to WANT to do that rather than be driven into it. I mean... if we force them to see other people, their relationships outside the family might end up BEING forced and they could end up becoming emotionally remote or even reclusive once they get out on their own."

Kathy frowned at that, but she nodded. "I don't like it, but you're right. Okay. We *encourage* them to pursue other people." She nodded towards me. "Okay. Your turn. What ideas have you got?"

"I'd like to get Sue on something more reliable than pills for birth control. If she has ANY deviation in taking those pills, we run the risk of them having a kid. And while the hard data on brother-sister offspring seems to be a lot less dangerous than is widely believed, I'd rather not have to face that possibility right now. For starters, I'm not ready to be a grandpa yet and I'm pretty sure that the kids aren't ready for children of their own, either one of their own making or with someone else."

Kathy nodded agreeably. "I can get behind that. I'll make an appointment for her to get a Depo shot later this week. Hell, that's a good idea ANYWAY, regardless of the reason for it. Next?"

"If they're going to do it, they should do it here and ONLY here."

"What?"

"Listen," I countered quickly, "it makes sense. What if they get caught doing it somewhere else outside the house? Trouble abounds. If they do it here, they at least don't have to worry about prying eyes or accidental discoveries from their peers, other adults or Johnny Law."

"Yeah," Kathy rejoined, "but what about accidental discoveries from US? Paul, I'm not sure how I'd react if I saw them actually doing it."

"Wait until you see Dave's equipment, you might change your tune," I said and quickly regretted it when I saw Kathy's face go pale. "Sorry. I spoke before thinking about that."

Kathy exhaled heavily and nodded soberly. "Just caught me by surprise, that's all," she said as she regained her composure. "But that still doesn't address my concern: what if we catch them at it again, even IF we're supposed to be out of the house? Didn't that technique fail once already?"

"Yeah, but in that instance, *I* didn't know what was going on. If I had, I'd have stayed out of the house." I tapped the dinner table thoughtfully as I considered the problem and then snapped my fingers when an idea came to me. "We can set up some sort of simple signal," I said. "A sign or moving a piece of furniture in some obvious way. Or maybe they can just say, 'Hey, Mom, Dad? Would you mind giving us some privacy for a few hours?' or something like that."

Kathy rubbed her forehead again and moaned. "Oh, God, that would take some getting used to. But, okay, I can accept that, provided we don't end up staying OUT of the house more than inside it. And they might as well be up front about it and make a verbal request for some privacy. We CAN be adult about this, I guess."

There was a brief silence for a moment as we let it all sink in. "So we're agreed about this?" I asked a few seconds later. "They can continue to... oh, hell... fuck each other... as long as they follow our rules?"

Kathy blushed slightly at the use of my word "fuck", but didn't object to it. I figure that we might as well call a spade a spade and just get used to the idea, as absurd as it seemed: our kids have been and will continue to BE fucking each other. Get over it and move on. "Yeah. I guess so," she answered.

"Okay," I said and relaxed some. The decision had finally been made, which was a far sight better than when we had started this talk. "Now... who's going to tell them?" I asked.

"Both of us," Kathy said immediately. "As soon as they get home, we'll set them down and talk it out." Then she leaned back and pulled her hand away from mine. "And now we have another matter to discuss," she said.

I blinked at her. "We do?"

"Yes. Your attraction to our daughter. How deep does it run?" she asked bluntly.

I was again silent for several long seconds as I searched myself for an honest answer. "Pretty deeply, I guess," I said and added hurriedly, "I am STILL madly in love with you, honey. I AM! I just... damn. If you'd seen what I saw the other day, I don't think you'd be able to deny it. She's just... hot. I can't get her body out of my mind. I'm sorry. I am. I'm sick for wanting her, but I do, I won't lie to you. But wanting and having are two different things. We've been faithful to each other all these years and I won't ruin that, not for all the money in the world."

Kathy smiled. "Who's offering you money, honey?" she asked rhetorically. "Okay. Thank you for being honest with me. And I appreciate your resistance to this sick, depraved, unhealthy, wanton, twisted desire to fuck our daughter." She said this while wearing a huge grin on her face, relishing the fact that she had me under her thumb.

Meanwhile, my eyes bugged out of my head and my jaw flew open at her words. "JESUS! Kathy!"

"Have you jacked off to the image of her in your head yet?" she asked, again bluntly, like her words were razor-sharp knives, pointed and precise.

I had to look away, anywhere my eyes could focus other than my wife, right then, would have been a welcome sight. However, I couldn't answer right away. How did she know? I asked myself. Was she just shooting in the dark or simply playing with me? SHOULD I answer her? Then I realized that my lack of answer was answer enough. I looked down at my hands shamefacedly. "Yeah. Once," I said quietly.

"That's not good, Paul."

"Believe me, I know. And, trust me, if you'd been around I would've thrown the most powerful fuck into your beautiful body that you could imagine."

"While thinking of our daughter," Kathy pointed out quickly. I started to reply, but found that I had no argument against it- she was right. Kathy softened considerably then. "Listen, it's okay. I understand. I don't necessarily LIKE it, but I can definitely understand it. You saw something that probably blew more than a few circuits. You needed to get it out of your system or go insane from it. But that can't go on, Paul. It'll be hard enough knowing that our kids are fucking each other, but throwing in your own desire to do the same with Susan would just be too much for me. For starters, I'd feel damned jealous. Secondly, I'd feel very unpretty. Thirdly, I'd probably feel very left out."

That surprised me. "Left out?"

"Well, sure," Kathy said. "I mean, there you'd be, with your object of desire, our daughter, while I'd just be sitting around the house with no one to lust after on my own."

I blinked at her for a moment. "What, I'm suddenly not the stud I used to be?"

"Oh, it's not that," my wife said with a wave of her hand, "but it certainly wouldn't be fair, would it? You've not only got a healthy attraction to Susan, but you've seen her naked and you've seen her pussy not once but twice. Meanwhile, I haven't seen David naked since he was in kindergarten. Not exactly fair, is it?"