All Comments on 'Girl Talk'

This feels like a very brief glimpse into a much longer story... felt incomplete. The site is being weird today, methinks.

Intriguing. I'd certainly welcome another chapter to see what happens.

Good job.

5 stars.

Hope the bitches don't fuck up

And I don't see it as a situation likely to occur to the average wife.

But RR's little story does raise some interesting ideas. "Dicks wear out, but pussies don't " has to go down as a classic.

Wives with a Very Best Female Friend (VBFF) will talk about things that would horrify their husbands. As Anonymous said, "Many men just can't grasp this concept".

A husband who believes that "my wife has no secrets from me" should talk with his wife's VBFF. (After plying her with large quantities of alcohol.)

Lue

Clearly this is a situation that could be abused, but I'm good with it. I also liked this submission.

Completely unrelated to the story, it's important to remember that when women talk, they are just as prone to exaggeration as men. I've been privy to overhearing a "girl's only" conversation involving someone I'd dated, where she described our sex life in ways I wish had been true. It was awesome.

I would have some serious educating to do on that stupid slut's pussy.

I haven't met the woman I can't wear out. I am positive she exists but I haven't fucked her.

With only natural lubrication, a woman can definitely wear out from fucking and need tlc and recovery time to even take a finger.

If they want to fuck around, they needed to marry swingers.

It's a half assed, lazy effort to put down a few words the author thought of and then call it a story. It's nothing and it doesn't belong on a site. Want to write it for yourself or keep if for a future story, fine. But to post this kind of crap is nothing but a waste of time for the reader.

And nor would women if the shoe was on the other foot. Happy to live a lifestyle the hubbys money provides but fuck others behind his back. Nice.....not.

JJ

Now now, don’t tease the animals RR. I do agree in part though. LW readership is so polarized by the angry BTB males that it’s nice to get some balance.

Check out some of the submissions from Ausfet for a very compellingly well written woman’s POV.

Thanks, I always appreciate your perspective - and your poking at the beehive.

And justice prevails.... the beatle guys deserve better than the airheads they are providing for....

We have "entitled" rich wives wanting to fuck macho cop guys while there husbands commit the horrible crime of playing golf! The husbands are lawyers and partners working probably 60 hour weeks and take 4 hours a week to relax together and most likely discuss business as well as family life. Now we have a few wives that are bored wanting to have some side play time - what could possible go wrong? Can't wait to see where this is going.

How about a seed being planted in the narrator's mind? That one off the top of my head. It seems evident that was intended. If not, the final line should make it evident.

"Man, that sun has gotten me all hot and sweaty," Gail said, as she got up and dove into the pool."

Not sure how that could be missed.

She got "all hot and sweaty," then "dove into the pool." Right?

. . . is the next chapter. Out on the course, Ringo asks, on the 11th tee, "Do you ever wonder if the girls are screwing around?"

PiperHamlin noted that there is often some 'exaggeration' when people talk about sex.

It’s a fragment. A scene. A speech.

It also isn’t erotic. 1 Star.

Nothing there.

One small point. The women talked about the men golfing when they could be getting laid. That assumes that all four guys were assured of nookie if they skipped golf. But what happens if only John gets laid, what do George, Paul and Ringo do? Besides, there's an entire weekend! I don't suppose they have GNO's when they could be home with their hubbies?

Reed, I read everything you write. I've read every word you wrote, Reed. But I'm not sure I'm bright enough to understand what I read here, Reed. Give me a bit more to read next time. Thinks for the read, Reed.

Well, yet another example that women are whores.

But the "pussy doesn't wear out" idea got me thinking. If it doesn't wear out why all the fuss about rape? It's just a common theft with no lasting physical damage. No different than having an insured bicycle stolen. And for sure whatever gets rubbed off during sex does grow back. So the big deal?

Maybe it's that a dick is external, like an elbow. Once in a while it may bump into something it shouldn't and most of the time any damage is minor.

A pussy is internal. It is private and getting to it is invasive. It has symbolism to a man in that it represents "home". It is something to be guarded and cherished. Having your own special pussy is like having your own home. Having a pussy that others are free to use is like having a motel. No way is it that special. So if someone turns your home into a motel you feel a loss.

R.

Boy am I good!

it sure sounds familiar, at least the geographical part of it.

and fore=play for 18 holes leaves the traps uncovered, TK U MLJ LV NV

As she says, she will enchant a mature man, and more than once.

Although it probably would be better if it wasn't an anonymous pussy.

Lue

So next week it rains. John doesn't even have to give anything up (his golf game) he wouldn't have anyway, but gets some good action from his sweetie. Meanwhile the other 3 Beatles are assaulted with Honey-do lists from bitchy wives whose poolside chats have been rained out, at least until later.

I'm sure those wives are willing to put out at the end of the day if those hubbies have spent their Saturday bestowing favor on their wives. So, their initial bitchiness is understandable, right?

Meanwhile John and Yoko played in bed until 845, spooned until 930, then showered and ate breakfast together. And about 1100 he asked for the honey-do list. Which group enjoyed their Saturday more, as well as got more done?

They all may be best work friends, but somebody's marriage is the strongest, and somebody's is the weakest.

Strong--most worked at

Weak--least worked at

Weak--most influential

Congratulations, RR, for the thought-provoking initial offering on what will clearly become a study in friends "helping" friends. In addition to the dialogue, i hope we get at least a little hot sex before you earn your grant check. Do the Beatles and their mates know they are test subjects?

cheat and then the husbands go all BTB on them. Maybe then they won't do it again.

If you have an issue tell the person don't decide to fix it by finding some strange. Honestly if they do cheat I want to see them get caught and loose that cushy lifestyle.

. . . if this was based in Lexington, the answer is yes. Most of my stories have real geographical locations.

I did some work at the Tate’s Creek Country Club back in the 1970s.

. . . the woman who was the inspiration for Judy in the story Picked Her Up At The Diner was working at the Kroger on Bypass Road in Richmond yesterday, remembered me flirting with her at the Wig Wam Diner, and was flirting right back yesterday. Not sure why, because I’m 20 years older than she is, but she remembered and did.

Most, but not all of my stories have a point of reality from which to start, but this one does not; this is purely my imagination, based on the philosophical question: what does a married man actually lose if his wife cheats on him?

. . . that no one picked up on Ringo moving into Pete Best’s old home.

And ignored it as too blatant.

Having survived all the other names, one more Liverpudlian was one too many?

Lue

To answer your question for me personally.

I would not lose if my wife cheated. She certainty would and the brain trust that fucked her would as well.

I am extremely territorial sexually. I also require self control, dignity, responsibility, fidelity, integrity and character in a mate. I am exclusively monogamous and am not in the least shy about it.

If someone wants multiple partners, they need to find a like minded mate.

I believe I am worth the same level of commitment I am willing to invest in a marriage and I am 100% committed.

I have never been interested in other men's women and have never touched a woman again, who was with me and tried out another.

It grosses me out. It is like second hand sex with another man. Bitches who like sniffing around married women are second hand homosexuals in my book who are too cowardly to get the dick they desperately crave.

Licking what another man slobbered on doesn't seem appealing to me but it certainly does to wife seducers.

I've also never been impressed with sluts. I've been friends with many but never more. I'm not intimidated in the least and I'm more confident than is probably healthy so insecurities don't factor.

My wife's first husband was sporting a log for a penis. I'm not tiny but I don't have near the equipment he does and my Mrs. is kept very satisfied in my bed. She didn't have good sex with him and that is unfortunate. I am not jealous of her past. I think sex is both fun and funny but it has to be exclusive for me.

Women talking...No problem with that...Not even with the confidence Linda showed with her ideas...The issue with all this talking is that Linda being so sure about her ideas, not even one of the other three asked her if she had already tested them to be so sure...She was a stay at home wife...Was she just talk or was she risking her rich life? 3*

What now? You just end the story after some rambling of a liquored up woman after she spoke stupid?

Where is the twist in the story that puts a little drama or consequence into it?

Nothing here.

and stupid enough to listen and consider her friend's bullshit? Won't be long before the wives break up the band. History repeating eh?

A weird little story, intended to stir the shit, I suspect. Nothing wrong with that. I enjoy shit-stirring. It seems there were only two controversial points made:

1) dicks “wear out” and pussies don’t

2) what a husband doesn’t know won’t hurt him

I’m not even sure what “wear out” means. Meaning men age differently than women? Men can’t have sex as often as women? Men need “recovery time” between sex sessions? Needless to say there are exceptions to all those rules on both sides. I’ve known a woman who couldn’t have intercourse for more than 5-10 minutes because she was highly-susceptible to UTI’s. I’ve known both men and women who could go all night. I don’t think there is any universal rule that applies to all men or all women.

To the second point, of course it’s true — but only as long as the secret is kept a secret. It’s incredibly hard to keep a secret. The greater the secret, the harder it is to keep. It doesn’t matter whether a wife’s secret is that she’s fucking the high school football team on the side or that she’s a kleptomaniac. It’s possible to keep such a secret forever, but highly unlikely.

Maybe I’m taking this story too seriously...

It IS "My" pussy. Why? Because if we're married, I earned it. I jumped through the hoops, I made the necessary sacrifices, I did the favors, I shelled out the cash, and I continue to do so to maintain the relationship. So as far as I'm concerned, it's "my" pussy in every way but literally. If I pay your bills, give you everything you *say* you want, put up with your parents and your douchey friends, put up with your mood swings and other annoying idiosyncrasies, take care of you when you're sick, etc, have I not earned the right to claim the pussy as my own?

In my view, when I woman in a relationship gives it up to someone else outside of it, she immediately devalues the pussy, and by extension herself. Why should I continue to make all these efforts and pay all these prices, when someone else gets it for free? The pussy clearly isn't worth it in her own mind if she's willing to give it away like that, and she as a person certainly isn't worth it if she'd fuck me over like that. So why should I pay for romantic evenings out on the town, exotic vacations, luxury cars, designer clothes/shoes, $800 phones and all that goods stuff, when the ACTUAL price for what I'm paying for amounts to a few compliments, a winning smile and maybe a couple drinks? Just being practical here.

And for those of you who would call me a misogynist or a caveman for "downplaying" the role of the woman in a relationship, maybe you'd have a leg to stand on if we didn't live in a world where women are seen as the prize and men are expected to earn them. We are expected to provide, protect and serve at ALL stages of the relationship, with comparatively few exceptions. So I don't think it's unreasonable to expect exclusive rights in return for the work we put in. You can't tell me you've never felt at least a little salty when you bought a product for, say, $500, then one of your friends showed up with the exact same product and paid $200 for it. Same principle.

Even if I'm not making heavy use of what I'm paying for, doesn't mean it's okay to just give it to someone else. Netflix doesn't let someone else use the service on my dime just because I don't watch it every day.

A interesting story which was leading to a twist which never materialized !

SystemShock has an interesting point regardless of women should be now equals in society and the work place. Men are still regarded as their protectors, best friend, lover, sole mate, etc. So yes men do pay for that pussy and bulls get it for free.

I do remember a policemen hitting on my GF many, many years ago. I had a chat with him and informed I will be chatting to his wife and Sargent about his behavior !

SystemShock would fit right in with the Taliban! Reducing a human being to her body part, and viewing her as a piece of property, bought and paid for, is pretty much the most inhumane thing a person can do. It isn’t a small step from this mindset to slavery. I feel sorry for any woman who is unfortunate enough to be married to a man who thinks this way.

And I'm sure he feels the same about men who whore out their wives. It's a matter of personal preference. There is a price for being married. It's called fidelity. Want to fuck around, stay single and do whatever you want. Maybe would be wives should make sure who they marry before fucking around.

Come on now. In the society the Taliban operates in a cheating wife would be put to death. SystemShock said nothing about doing anything like that. I don't agree with the way he thinks about it in terms of payment and ownership, but relationships are often described in transactional terms. Can you really say you have never heard a woman say that their husband or boyfriend owes them?

I think a marriage is a promise to invest time, effort and love into each other. Most marriages also come with a promise to forsake all others, I understand that there are exceptions to that one, but if your partner doesn't know you aren't up for that clause and you violate it you are breaking the contract. SystemShock views on marriage may be repulsive to you, but if his partner knows them and says she agrees with him then she should not go and break them. If she does, it is clear he is calling foul and ending the game.

I don’t disagree with anything you wrote. I disagree with this primitive notion of viewing another person as your property, and seeing them as nothing more than a body part. That’s truly disgusting, and yet I see that viewpoint repeated in the LW comments section often.

I disagree with the previous anon that SystemShock differs from the Taliban in that he hasn’t stated that death is an appropriate punishment for infidelity. I don’t know if he has stated that opinion personally, but it’s well-established that many LW readers feel this way. In fact, it’s to the point where they fantasize about killing the women who have wronged them. This isn’t news to anyone who has been reading stories here for more than a week or so.

Is the converse not also true? Do I not "own" my husband, for all the reasons you mentioned? I, too, put up with him, his macho-bluster friends, his incessant football mania, leaving the toilet seat up, and all the other annoyances. I make more money than he does, too, so I buy my own stuff, and some of his. "We," are a team.

I thought that marriage was a commitment to exclusivity, when I signed on. Mutual ownership seems to be the name of the game, to me. I have the same claim to his attention, affection and body that he has to mine. That you didn't mention the mutuality of that commitment, does sound misogynistic. I don't know that you meant it that way, but that's the way it sounded. I certainly agree with the "ownership" angle, but it's a two way street. RR has given voice to buffoon husbands and bimbo wives. Maybe to illustrate the silliness, maybe just to jerk chains, who knows. I don't think he meant this to be a heavy serious drama. Those will come on July 4. And sooner, as soon as I get done with editing.

People like silentsound come on a porn site and get all preachy. Dude, you are on a fucking PORN site. You ain’t pure as the driven snow. Wow.

Maybe you should read the story again. Y'know, where the entire conversation was about their pussies, how much "use" they get and by whom, and NOT about them as human beings. They speak about their pussies as if they are a subscription service, saying that if it's going unused by the person who's paying for it, there's no harm in letting someone else use it. These characters and the author who made them have already devalued themselves as human beings, and thus by their own words do not deserve consideration as human beings.

And nice use of the more modern version of Godwin's Law; instead of equating someone you don't agree with to Hitler, equate them to the Taliban/Al Qaeda/ISIS/Trump. Appeal to morality when you have nothing else to say, which is incredibly ironic coming from you with your regular condemnation of the "Morality Brigade".

But back on topic, is it NOT bought and paid for? Am I not, as the man in the relationship, expected to buy and pay for it? Am I not, as the man in the relationship, to be labeled as a cheap, thoughtless scrub if I DON'T buy and pay for it? Am I not, as the man in the relationship, expected to put a ring on it if I like it, which I have to buy and pay for?

If buying and paying for it is so inconsequential in the grand scheme, as you make it out to be, then why, oh why, is it such a big deal, hm? Why does it make or break so many unions?

The point of my comment was to counter this "logic" that a woman being married or in an otherwise exclusive relationship doesn't mean the one she's married to has exclusive rights to her. Her body, her choice; that's all well and good. But women assign an arbitrary value to themselves and what they have to offer when they make us, as men, jump through hoops and pay through the nose for the "privilege" of being with them. Same goes for any man who would do the same. And you know what? That's all well and good, too; instead of beating other males to death for the right to mate, we simply have to outspend them these days. That's fine. But when we meet that arbitrary value and win the hand the fair maiden, then she turns around and gives our prize to someone else for a far, far, FAR lower price, even you have to agree that's kinda shitty. How would you like it if you had to remortgage your house to buy a brand new sports car(assuming, for the sake of argument, you'd be stupid enough to do something like that), but then that same salesmen sold your neighbor the exact same car for pocket change? You'd be outraged, as would any other sane person.

I know, I know, I can hear you crowing about "objectification" now. Y'know, even though we're talking about women who have already objectified themselves. But I have no inclination to think of anyone who would employ this "logic" as anything other than an object. Anyone who thinks all the money, time and effort their spouse as put into them and their relationship doesn't, at the very least, earn said spouse loyalty? They're dog shit on a sidewalk as far as I'm concerned. I've got a "thing" about loyalty, and I don't see how it seems to be so unreasonable for me and others to expect loyalty when we've well and truly EARNED it. But this "you don't own me" argument(when it comes to all things romantic and intimate, be it sex, making out or just cuddling)flies in the face of that basic human decency. No one's talking about "owning" in the first place, but the question still remains: If I'm paying a premium for exclusive rights that aren't actually exclusive, why should I still keep paying for them?

Here’s the key difference, I think. I fell in love with my wife because of her mind and heart. (Okay, granted, also her physical appearance had something to do with it.) If she ever shared her heart with someone else, I’d be devastated.

Your view of marriage seems more like a bartering system. She trades her pussy for your cash. That’s prostitution, not marriage.

If ever a story required his comment, surely this must be it. I hope he doesn't just let it be.

Fine, fine, I may be a one-woman man, but there's still enough of me to go around.

We'll start with JoeJoe. You disagree that I differ from the Taliban? And now you're judging me based on what other people have said? Alrighty, then.

Here's an example of something I've actually said, JoeJoe. While I do not condone spousal abuse in any way, I am a firm believer in people getting what they deserve. As such, I have equated cheating on a spouse to poking a sleeping bear. Maybe the bear won't wake up and you'll be able to walk away unscathed and smug in the knowledge that you poked a bear and got away with it. Maybe the bear will wake up, but will be so lethargic and disoriented that you'll be able to get away with only a couple of scars, a story to tell and hopefully a lesson learned. And maybe you'll be mauled to death and end up as a candidate for the Darwin Awards. No matter how it turns out, you accepted any and all possible risks that come with your actions.

Maybe your spouse will never find out. Maybe they will and it'll only result in a bit of a nasty divorce. Or maybe your spouse will show up at your hotel room with a Glock and all the rage they need to use it. So while I don't condone murder of an errant spouse, I certainly never have any pity for the "victims". They probably never thought their husband/wife would resort to such extremes, but I bet their husband/wife never thought they'd cheat, either. Assuming you'll know how someone will react is a dangerous game on its own.

-----

Now for BR. Yes, the inverse is just as true, and I never meant to imply otherwise. See my comments on other stories and you'll see I'm always a proponent for equality; it's just that so many people confuse "equality" with "special treatment" and don't want to see men get what women are apparently entitled to. Y'know, like a wife going out to get laid elsewhere when hubby's sex drive goes down with age, while hers goes up. I ask them if it's also the "right" of a husband to go dip his wick in someone else's wax if wifey isn't putting out at home, but I never get an answer(looking at you, LueLue). It has nothing to do with misogyny or any of that "Red Pill" nonsense; just pointing out the FACT that this whole "equality" movement has really just created more double standards, as opposed to getting rid of them. But I guess objectivity has no place in that realm.

All that said, when was the last time you heard a man tell his wife "you don't own me", in fiction or otherwise? This seems to be an exclusively female thing, and the only time I've heard a man use it was to throw his girlfriend's own words back in her face. I understand where it comes from, and I readily agree with it when it's used in the context of, say, a wife telling off her husband for trying to "forbid" her to go to the movies with her friends, or some shit like that(as long as she was *actually* going to the movies with her friends). But saying "you don't own me" in response to the husband telling her she can't go to a bar to pick up a stranger and take him to a hotel room? That's just a *wee* bit beyond the pale, but it's the kind of thing you'll see in quite a few LW stories, and far too many of them act like she has a right to say that under those circumstances. That makes absolutely no sense, but when I point out just how nonsensical it is, apparently I'm a terrorist.

Allahu Akbar?

-----

Back to JoeJoe. Remember the header of my first comment? Speaking in practical terms. I am not speaking from a place of emotion, love or otherwise. What I am talking about is not my idea of marriage or any other relationship. That's my idea of a mercenary; loyalty and service bought and paid for. And that's fine if I want someone buried in several graves, in several states, in several pieces. But that's not what I want in the person I come home to after a long day at work. However, when someone pulls out the "you don't own me" argument, it's not one you're going to win with emotion, because clearly all the other stuff that REALLY makes a solid relationship doesn't matter to that person. They want what they want, so screw you. I counter that argument with all the "other" stuff in a relationship. If I haven't earned your loyalty emotionally, then I damn sure have materially and monetarily. If she wants to bring "ownership" into it, then fine, I'll play that game. If I don't "own" her, then why did she *demand* that I buy her and pay to keep her? Why am I buying all the expensive gifts and paying for the grand gestures, when she has shown me she isn't worth it?

If being with me isn't enough to keep her legs closed, this fisherman's already got the knife out, ready to cut the line and move on. But if even giving her everything she wanted, and asking for comparatively little in return, wasn't enough, it truly drives home the point of how unworthy she is of my time, effort and money. Instead of talking about how she figuratively isn't worth it, I talk about how she LITERALLY isn't worth it. As in I am grossly overpaying compared to the value she has given to herself. I mean, why buy her a ring worth a couple thousand dollars, when the approximate value she's assigned to herself is $30 in drinks and some free compliments? Hard to argue with that math.

But in the end it all boils down to this: I refuse to stay with someone who can't even show as much gratitude, loyalty and self-control as my dogs. When I get into a relationship I EARN better than that, and I deserve better than that. Any decent person does, and surely you can agree with that sentiment.

Everyone is having a discussion. My first post was definitely more geared to an erotic site while my second was in response to RR's thoughts on wives and their pussies.

Free discussions are entertaining as well...

ReedRichards has sparked some entertaining discussions.

Maybe Linda should get a job too. Obviously too much free time on her hands. The two horrified protesters were the two that worked outside the home.

You forced me to do something I loathe: I went back and reread this story. Thankfully, it's short!

Sorry, but I don't get the connection between your theory about "owning" your wife's pussy and what these women were discussing. At one point, Linda says, "That's what men are like, and they get all horribly offended if some other man fucks their pussy, even though it doesn't make the pussy any different for them."

The way she talks about "their pussy" and "the pussy" makes it sound like she's objectifying women as you did in your first post! Granted, this is probably because this was written by a man, and I suspect women don't actually speak this way.

Your sleeping bear analogy works just fine. I just find it cringe-worthy when readers root for the bear to maul a man to death for the crime of putting his dick in a vagina that didn't "belong" to him. It's one thing to acknowledge that it happens, and it's unfortunate. It's another thing to whip out the pom-pom's.

Your second point to me sounds as if you're speaking about something that specifically happened to you. Some woman said to you at some point: "You don't own me" or something of that nature, and you played the "I paid for that pussy" card. Again, that isn't marriage; it's prostitution. It sounds more like a conversation between a pimp and ho than a husband and wife. Your marriage mileage may differ.

I do agree mostly with your last thought: "I refuse to stay with someone who can't even show as much gratitude, loyalty and self-control as my dogs. When I get into a relationship I EARN better than that, and I deserve better than that. Any decent person does, and surely you can agree with that sentiment."

Although comparing your wife to a dog is another dubious example of warped thinking, I understand your point. When you enter into a relationship, you set the terms of that relationship. You can insist that she clip her toenails at least once per week and keep her hair from shedding on the carpet. If she violates those terms, then you have every right to end the relationship. Of course, in an equal relationship, you'd have to abide by her terms as well. Otherwise, it's an owner-and-doggie relationship. And who the hell would want that?

Even if they don't say those words exactly, it's that same "you don't own me" attitude(notice the use of italics when Linda said men get all offended when another man fucks "their pussy"; I interpret that as sarcasm, given everything else she's saying). Being married just means they have to be careful about it, if it means anything at all. Same "logic" employed by a lot of other LW stories that DO use those exact words.

And yes, just like I said, this is a "story" about women objectifying themselves, so everything I said was fair game as far as I'm concerned. And don't think for a second that women don't actually talk like that to each other when they're alone. Maybe they like to think they're better than men, and maybe some men like to think women are better than them as well, but the fact of the matter is we can all be just as shitty under the right circumstances. And typically the "right circumstances" include being alone with friends who know how to keep their mouths shut outside the circle. Hell, I've got a neighbor who openly brags about using her pussy to keep her husband in-line, and she's FAR from the only woman I've heard say things like that.

The only time I root for the bear is when it's being poked with a cattle prod while trapped in a cage and unable to do anything about it. When the cheating spouse is cruel, abusive and downright evil about it, I fully endorse removing them from the mortal coil. If you would torture another human being like that, let alone one you're supposed to love and cherish, the world will be better off without you. Period. That goes for real life as well. As you can imagine, I've been involved in quite a few arguments about capital punishment.

Ah, there it is. I've noticed you have a habit of trying to make the argument ABOUT the person you're arguing with. Normally I wouldn't indulge such a thing, but what the hell? As a matter of fact, yes, there was a girlfriend who pulled the "you don't own me" card on me. And you know what I did? I stopped paying for her. And if I didn't "own" her, that meant she didn't "own" me, and I was free to date her sister who, quite frankly, had more brains, more charm and no princess complex. She also understood the concept of reciprocation, so that was a plus.

See, most people think you can't just "turn off" your feelings for someone. I can. I've always been a practical, pragmatic person. I have no use or desire for leeches, turncoats or servants. I'm aware this may sound pompous of me, but my motto for relationships is "Get on my level, or get out". I want an equal, not a yes-woman, not a "dom" and not a personal fucktoy. I don't mind paying their way, I've got the money for it, so that's whatever. But I expect certain things in return for what I give, and I don't think it's unreasonable. I expect honesty, loyalty and trust. I expect communication, and the willingness to bash me over the head with a problem if I'm apparently incapable of seeing it on my own. None of that "You were too busy to notice" bullshit; MAKE me notice. And most of all, I expect her to expect the same out of me. I can *guarantee* the same out of me; I always hold up my end of the bargain.

Maybe that sounds too much like a business transaction for you, but seeing as how business transactions are usually more stable than marriages...

And as for prostitution...Isn't it? Or are you telling me that, when you were going out with your wife, you shared the bill on all your dates? You bought her the things she wanted and were paid back with something of equal value? You have never shelled out with either money, favors, deeds and/or gifts in exchange for a little somethin'-somethin'? You never had to do anything specifically for her in order to earn the right to be with her? I'm gonna go ahead and say "No" to all that. Because then it becomes a question of why she's with you at all. You gotta prove yourself some kind of way, and it's in that proving that the prostitution angle comes in. Dress it up however you like, but the bottom line is that at some point you and every other man who's ever been in a relationship have traded money, objects or favors for sex. Even if that wasn't your intention, you may have still gotten sex in return for what you did, which *kinda* fits under the umbrella of prostitution by definition. See that? The practical, pragmatic mind at work. And yes, I AM a riot at parties.

Again, I'm not saying the whole "why am I paying for you?" thing is how a relationship works. As far as I'm concerned, it's the parting shot after the relationship has already failed. A conversation between a pimp and his ho? Well more of a disgruntled customer, but if she's gonna go handing out "my" premium pussy for peanuts, we already know what she is; I'm just letting her know she charged me way too much. It's a very specific thing for a very specific situation, that's all.

So holding a human being to a higher standard than a dog is "warped thinking" to you? Because if there's a mental capability comparison between a human and a dog that makes the HUMAN look bad, I don't see how that's the fault of the one comparing them. My dogs(German Shepherds, btw)show gratitude for what I do for them. My dogs show loyalty and can't be bribed away from my side(and more than one person has tried to steal them that way). My dogs have learned to control themselves and understand there are consequences for doing things they aren't supposed to do, even when I'm not around. I once sent them to a friend's house while I was out of town for a week and he told me some kids dropped a cat into his yard just to see the dogs chase it, but they just sat there on the back porch, staring dead at the kids and ignoring the cat. Given that's because of proper training, but if a dog, as a puppy, can learn the concepts of loyalty and self-control in a matter of weeks, is there any excuse for an adult human, of any gender, not to be able to do the same? I don't think so, but I guess I'm just a freak who expects humans to be a better class of animal. What, with our big ol' brains and the ability to invent these concepts to begin with.

"It IS "My" pussy. Why? Because if we're married, I earned it. I jumped through the hoops, I made the necessary sacrifices, I did the favors, I shelled out the cash, and I continue to do so to maintain the relationship. So as far as I'm concerned, it's "my" pussy in every way but literally. If I pay your bills, give you everything you *say* you want, put up with your parents and your douchey friends, put up with your mood swings and other annoying idiosyncrasies, take care of you when you're sick, etc, have I not earned the right to claim the pussy as my own?"

What is your limit here? You could have given the same argument about her cooking; if you have paid for everything and done all of those things, have you not earned the right to claim her cooking as your own?

Does your wife wear a bikini? If so, other men have likely seen your woman, and perhaps even lusted after her. Since you've paid for everything, and done all of those things, have you not earned the right to be the only one to see her in a bikini?

"The greater the secret, the harder it is to keep. It doesn’t matter whether a wife’s secret is that she’s fucking the high school football team on the side or that she’s a kleptomaniac. It’s possible to keep such a secret forever, but highly unlikely."

That's why affairs get discovered, but people usually get away with one-night stands. I've posted several one-night stand stories in LW: in one, she got away with it, in another, the guy got an arrow in his heart, and in the third, someone -- though possibly not the husband of the woman in the story -- assaulted and seriously mutilated a serial seducer.

"But back on topic, is it NOT bought and paid for? Am I not, as the man in the relationship, expected to buy and pay for it? Am I not, as the man in the relationship, to be labeled as a cheap, thoughtless scrub if I DON'T buy and pay for it? Am I not, as the man in the relationship, expected to put a ring on it if I like it, which I have to buy and pay for?"

What, exactly, does bought and paid for mean? Does this mean your wife does not work outside the home, does not earn any money?

Leaving that part aside, what would happen -- hypothetically, of course -- if your wife suddenly decided to allow someone else to use the pussy you bought and paid for? Assuming that you believe that bought and paid for extends into the future, would that not mean that the side guy or one-night stand or whatever robbed you, stole from you?

You see, you have set up a scenario in which not only could your wife cheat on you, but anyone with whom she copulated also cheated you.

I don't know, maybe you went further out on a limb than you intended, but what you've written falls right in line with what I wrote Linda as saying: "Hell, that's why guys call it 'scoring,' because it's like a sport to them, that they have to play defense, you know, and that if they don't pitch a shut-out, it doesn't matter how many times they've 'scored' themselves, they've still been beaten. And if they manage to get some married stuff on the side, then they've somehow 'beaten' the other husband, cucked him I guess it's called. They can fuck a married girl one time, while her husband screws her ten thousand, but they've still won, you know, that's how they think."

A short comment making a point is great. That's how this discussion started.

A major dissertation is snooze material. Time this discussion ended?

Lue

Convenient that you pick out that one thing that I said, perhaps because you felt it was easier to counter. No matter, let's roll with it, hyperbole included.

Well, Stretch, if the lady had actually cooked the food herself, even if I had bought the ingredients and she was using my kitchen to do it, I'd consider that equal exchange. I put in the money, but she put in the effort, and that's just dandy. But if we're in some expensive restaurant SHE all but demanded I take her to, where the only "effort" she put into the food is lifting her fork to stuff her face with it? My point still stands.

And as far as the bikini goes, what is it that men are typically forced to jump through hoops for, Stretch? What is it that women know we want and take great joy in making us "earn"? What is it they assume we're after, even if it's not what we really want(at least not entirely)? What is the carrot they dangle on the stick in front of us to get what they want right from the jump? I shouldn't have to answer that, but I'll give you a hint: It ain't the honor of meeting her family. I don't pay for the exclusive rights to look, or for the rights to her home cooking(not to toot my own horn, but 99% of the time I'm the better chef anyway, so then not only is it MY money, but MY time and MY effort as well). Those are not the terms and that is not what she's selling as the incentive I'm given to keep making the effort and paying the bill. And make no mistake, she IS selling it if she's making me buy it.

Once the relationship is deemed "exclusive" by both parties, typically the exclusivity in intimacy is the biggest part of that, yet the one that goes unsaid because it's a given unless otherwise stated. She can cook for whomever she wants, she can show off to the whole beach(which makes me look good, too, so why would I have a problem with it?), but romance and intimacy? That's for us, no one else. And if she has different ideas about it, that little fish can goes right back in the sea. Or flounder about on the shore, depending on how petty and vindictive I'm feeling about being strung along and taken advantage of.

I realize this makes me sound like a pussy hound, but here's the thing; I'm not the one who puts sex on the table. I don't go in expecting to get some if I make the right moves, unless they imply or outright tell me that's the case. I'm fine with spending money just to get to know someone and see if it can go anywhere. But if the offer is made, why refuse it? I leave it to them to answer that question for me.

Why do you assume I have a wife? Has anything I've written so much as implied that I have a wife? Is my talking about the dating game not a dead giveaway that I don't? Do I really have to spell it out? Then again, when I literally do spell it out, you still ask what I mean. Don't be obtuse; it's not a good look. Methinks you're just skimming what I write in order to cherry-pick things you think you can counter. Doesn't work so well when things I've already written counter your counterpoints. Did you not read anything about what I look for in a woman? Rhetorical question; if you had, you wouldn't have typed that.

Ah, LueLue, I was wondering when you'd chime in. I thought you'd actually have something to say, but I find myself disappointed. Again. If the conversation bores you so much, here's a novel idea for you: don't read it. Instead of trying to be cute and suggesting that we stop talking just because you have no interest in what we're saying, just leave the room and come back when the adults have finished speaking. M'kay? M'kay.

"I suspect women don't actually speak this way"

Maybe you should try listening, for a change, instead of being your normal MRA self?

I just said don't talk so much.

Try brevity. Then I'll read it.

And maybe even respond.

Lue

What come across as a group of (mostly) parasitic trophy wives is pretty much the least sympathetic proponent for the "I'm a free woman; my husband doesn't own me" school of thought.

I'm not entirely sure what the point of this story is; it kind of feels like a generic prologue to a generic BTB story, as opposed to something which stands on its own on any level.

Of course, when I first began dating my wife, I paid for dinners and movies. I paid for lots of things. When we married, I earned more than she did, so I paid for more of our stuff. Later, I wanted her to stay home and raise our children, and she was a phenomenal stay-at-home mom for our kids. I paid for 100% of our bills then.

It was all worth every penny.

And guess what? I didn’t do it because I expected sex in return. I did it because I enjoyed her company more than anyone I’ve ever met. I did it because I loved her, and our family, so much that I would have sacrificed anything to make them happy. Money meant nothing to me compared to their happiness and love, and the satisfaction of knowing I was providing for all of them.

It’s a shame you’re so focused on money and sex. There is so much more to life. Seriously.

Sorry to get so philosophical on a porn site. Your comments and worldview just really struck a chord.

Exit question: if your wife were in a horrible accident, and were unable to have sex with you, would you dump her?

The description of LW is, "Married extra-marital fun: swinging, sharing & more."

I'm a fan of the fun. The comments are so often the opposite of what the description is. I realize this category has taken a life of its own. But to quote the joker, "Why so serious?" Not ever submission here should be treated as though someone killed your dog.

Philosophical treatises could well go in that category.

Far better than in LW comments.

Lue

That category hits a lot of things, but I agree given what's available, the best category. I'd still like to see a Philosophy category on Literotica. Perhaps the venom in the comments in this category could find a place in another forum. I can dream.

Sure, I could post my thoughts in Reviews and Essays. Maybe a dozen people would see it! And no one would comment on it.

RR obviously posted this “story” for no other reason than to generate comments. There have been SO few LW stories worthy of comments lately that it’s a breath of fresh air. At least he’s provided an interesting topic of conversation. (And SS even more so.)

Are we really complaining about too much commentary now?

Is short and mostly focused on one idea. (This is a standard I don't always achieve in my own comments.)

I rarely find long, rambling comments trying to cover lots of ideas to be worth reading. At best, I skim them to see if there is anything worth replying to.

Lue

Ha! Ha!

"RR obviously posted this “story” for no other reason than to generate comments."

Who, me? :)

The story came to me in a couple of stages. The first part was the 'what harm is done' question, since so many commenters are very insistent that men are injured when their wives cheat. If they are injured, the obvious question is: how have they been injured?

The second was that the story should be told from the perspective of one woman in a group of women chatting. The 'Beatles' idea came to me while I was taking a shower the other morning; I needed an introduction.

The statistics have always seemed questionable, but I think it's fair to say that roughly half of all married women have sex outside of their marriages at least once. That means that roughly half of married men have been cheated upon, at least once, though it's clear that not all of them ever find out about it. Thus the question: if a wife cheats on her husband, but he never finds out about it, how has he been harmed? The injury isn't physical -- unless his wife brings home an STD or gets pregnant by her lover -- and the injury isn't mental, because he's unaware of the situation.

SS has told us that he would be injured because someone else used 'his' pussy. While I disagree with the notion that any man can 'own' a woman's pussy, he has still described situations in which he knows that 'his' bought and paid for pussy has been used by someone else. What his injury would be if he never found out remains an unanswered question.

I'm curious as to how far you take that philosophy. Does it apply to rape, too?

Take a scenario in which a woman is unconscious and already had consensual sex earlier in the evening, with the end result that she's unaware both during and after the event that she was raped. Would you argue that, as long as he doesn't give her an STD or get her pregnant, the man did nothing wrong?

(Possibilities don't matter in the above scenario, since they don't in the cheating wife scenario, i.e., condoms could break or someone could tell the victim/spouse what happened.)

Also, your statistics are exaggerated, likely from some voluntary-response survey. A 2016 study I found more believable is that 14% of wives and 22% of husbands admit to having cheated. Various studies going back to the late 90s show a 10-15% rate for wives and 20-25% rate for husbands.

I find the "You don't own me!" argument both baffling and kind of uninteresting. If the person making the declaration honestly believed in that definition of marriage, they'd simply have an open marriage

Rape is an act of violence. A felony. Consensual sex...isn’t.

SystemShock You are right, but (unfortunatally) used wrong words. The cuck stories and the RAAC stories show the wives own body of their husbands in these stories.

These wives behave in these the cuck and RAAC stories as they are masters of the slaves, the husband slaves. Funny why so difficult to understand only the mutuality is the modern rule. The wife wants other man's children in the family without the husband's permission there are some states in the USA where the husband will not pay children support to bastards after divorce, because the politicians of these states understood the WIVES DO NOT OWN THE BODY OF THEIR HUSBANDS AS WELL!

Well done RR. You sure started some chingazos!

As for the rhetorical proposition, the actual act if never discerned would not cause injury.

Depends on the nature of the couple/vows/expectations

For a standard, run of the mill marriage, with vows of fidelity, I can see at least three affronts/ injuries to the " cheated upon":

The disrespect shown by being dishonest/not forthcoming with them.

They were married to a reasonably honest person of what they thought was good morals. Now they are saddled to a dishonest person of lesser than advertised morl fiber.

Any time, emotional investment, money, etc spent in indulging the strange cones at the expense of the original family or couple. In most cases, modern peeps don't even have enough time to spend together, so odds are at some point there will be a loss to the spouse, benefit to the cheaters.

It's entitled "Guy Talk," so even though I left a note for the administrator, I don't know if it will be linked to this one. Like this one, it's short, less than a full page. There is a reason for that: these conversations are completely separate, and have different endings.

"Exit question: if your wife were in a horrible accident, and were unable to have sex with you, would you dump her?"

Well, my wife has said that if she dies before me, she figures that I'd be married again within six months! I wouldn't need to, of course, 'cause there are so many widowed or 'desperate housewives' my age who wouldn't require a marriage license to have fun.

But, specifically to answer Joe's question, no, I wouldn't dump her; I'd stick with her until the end. Whether she'd offer me a 'hall pass' is another question, and I don't know the answer to it.

Of course, my answer is influenced by the fact I'm in my mid sixties.

So many people just love you, and can't wait for your next classic. I'll keep that star warm and waiting.

I'm glad to see you're doing a companion piece. By the way I score things, this one is criminally under-rated. My thoughts on your thoughts:

"The first part was the 'what harm is done' question, since so many commenters are very insistent that men are injured when their wives cheat. If they are injured, the obvious question is: how have they been injured?"

In a perfect scenario, I'd agree that there is no harm. However, infidelity rarely happens in a vacuum. Here are a few thoughts I have where there is the potential for harm, even if the spouse (I'll call him the husband for this particular story) is unaware of the infraction.

* Often someone is privy to the secret. Let's say the wife confides to a mutual friend or family member. This puts the confidant in a position of sharing the secret. It's likely that this will affect the relationship with the husband. One example would be distancing oneself from what was a close relationship for fear of betraying the secret.

*Let's say the affair was with someone who knows the husband. Let's also say this person has a tendency to brag to people who also know the husband. An example of a possible outcome here is, all of a sudden many people the husband knows now have a bit of contempt for the "clueless Beatle." The husband never knows why, but suddenly his life is affected in a negative fashion, and he can't pinpoint the reason why.

*The prefect scenario assumes the wife is unaffected by her experience, and slips seamlessly back into her normal relationship with her husband. If that didn't happen though, one possible ramification is that because she cheated, she now is suspicious of innocent actions by her husband that could be mistaken as signs that he too is cheating. This sort of unhealthy suspicion couldn't help but affect the marriage.

Just three thoughts where I can see possibilities for harm even if the secret remains kept.

Another harm we've seen, in LW stories at least, is that when a wife gets away with her dalliance, a couple of things can happen either singly or together.

1) She loses respect for her husband because he's so clueless.

2) She figures she got away with it once, why not try again?

Awesome Flash. Pared down the the bare minimum of words. Left us hanging a little, but that's what comes with it being a Flash.

Want to give it 3.5-stars. Debating whether to round up or down.

She was a lot sure of husband reactions.

Most of those wives probably wouldn't be too happy if the men were banging their secretaries now would they. By their own words, as long as they did their wives regularly it's alright. Of course the one detail they ALL forgot about were those three little words: Forsaking All Others. Apparently trust, fidelity and promises to their spouses don't rank very high either. Maybe it's just a side effect of being married to lawyers. Flexible morality.

Well written as always. Just not my kind of story.

Good start to a story. Are these lady going to meet the cops while they are in uniform and have sex in the police station or the woods or in the patrol car?. I hope part two will be soon.

Read this to check out the next chapter. No rating yet.

We'll see...

I like evil, ha, ha. 5*

What women don't understand is that for men who prey on married women, it's not the woman as much, as it is making a chump out of their husbands, that interests them. The women are nothing more than than trophies and something to brag about to other men, to these types.

The one wife states that it's ok to cheat so long as she screws her husband when ever he wants! This wife is an idiot. No husband wants a slut for a wife. That kind of wife will bring home a permanent STD such as Herpes!

Nice setup. I like the thought of where this is going. Four****s

Again, I wonder whether many of the writers here have much sex. Pussy definitely wears out. It gets sore, and it swells internally. Clits also get hypersensitive. What and who wears out all depends on the relative stamina on the male and female sides. Moreover, female libidos vary just like male libidos, except that, on the whole, women are LESS orgasmic (read about how many women seldom or never experience orgasm during sex and note the surveys in which most women would rather do a lot of other things in preference to sex)

Thought I'd give another story a try, see if maybe the first I read was the only one that sucked. BUT NO! HOLY SHIT, you're an IDIOT! You have zero TALENT! ZERO BRAINS! SAD!

This author is brainless! He forgets about STDs and I will assure you have these lovers will have them. Some will have permanent STDs so the present from one of these wives to their husband will keep giving and giving for the rest of his life. These wives are just sluts who deserve divorces!

One stupid bitch poisons all the other stupid bitches!!!

Just continually proves my point that WOMEN ARE NOTHING BUT A LIFE SUPPORT SYSTEM for their Cunts.

Is that what you call a story, a stupid lead-in with using Beatle names? Leaving it half way done, maybe not even that?

What was this about?.

Bullshit story, u can do better than this tripe u know?

1/5

Linda does have men figured out, to a T, and she is right on the whole discussion.

Because that is how most men think. All you have to do is read most of the stories in the Loving Wives section of this board, and how the husbands/boyfriends react. Fragile little egos, and major insecurities..

"I guess it was true, that it didn't really hurt a husband if his wife had a little extracurricular fun, as long as she wasn't denying him anything. "

That's like saying not knowing you have cancer won't hurt you.

People who hold sexual secrets and maintain a deceptive sexual reality and life while pretending to be in a honest relationship or family system are engaging in a form of abusive covert dominance and control. They essentially dehumanize their partners by withholding important information from them that would be essential for their basic navigation around survival and health. They effectively strip away their partner’s ability to truly understand key aspects of their intimate relationship, along with their power to advocate for themselves and to make healthy and self-protective decisions. Abusers who hold sexual secrets prevent their partners from taking action based on truth and reality, and ultimately keep them paralyzed in a destructive pattern of uninformed immobility.

There are many people who feel entitled or justified in creating and maintaining a deceptive, compartmentalized sexual or relational reality while in an intimate partnership or family system. Probably the most common myth that perpetuates their justification for keeping sexual secrets is the idea that “What they don’t know won’t hurt them.”

In reality, the patterns of deception, covering up, and psychological manipulation associated with secret sexual behaviors constitute a serious form of emotional, psychological, and relational abuse that is often not recognized or considered in our society. It is time that it becomes just as common to recognize and understand clearly that “What they don’t know will hurt them.”

I keep coming back to this story, as it is very indicative of the differences in how many women, and most men think

Linda does have men figured out, to a T, and she is right on the whole discussion.

Because that is how most men think. All you have to do is read most of the stories in the Loving Wives section of this board, and how the husbands/boyfriends react. Fragile little egos, and major insecurities..

All the little troll boy's peckers are shrinking up, reading this and seeing how women view it.

Hate it!

Bill S.

Little fragile egos has nothing to do with being honest and loyal. It is a 2 way street. Like those pools and sitting around the big hisses? That is why the sluts should keep their lega closed

Same.for the buboes. Like the hot loyal wife dont stray. Pretty simple. You canyon justify this conversation

surprised that not one other wife asked if she was talking from experience.

And just like that the female herd effect kicks in. "It's not adultery. Just a bit of fun on the side. He'll never know and it will take nothing from him..."

Scene 2: "Mrs S?. Yes. You've been served"

Followed by bohooo.bohoooo.