All Comments on 'Shadow Lake Estates Ch. 07'

You know the week is going to suck when you look at the new stories and all you have is Swingerjoe. Tomorrow there'll be five stories about guys sicking their wife's lover's dick and five stories about husbands being humiliated by huge black dicks. Someone rescue us from Swingerjoe and the cucks. Hey, Swingerjoe, that would make a great band name! Get you a bus, go on the road. Take your wives, if you have one. You could pass around your wives to the huge dicked guys in the audience.. There must be millions of them as much as they appear in these stories.

Sorry, didn't read the story. Don't like to get my meals out of the garbage can.

I guess that makes you the groupie. You should go on tour with the band.

@SJ

Not my favorite story from you. I get that you like small chapters, but 3 pages is still considered small also. If you made this into 3 chapters instead of 7, it may have helped it. I have to go back and read the entire thing again before I score it.

Swingerjoe and the cucks. I laughed harder at that than I should have. Thanks for the belly laugh amidst a crisis of crap.

I think it was Thomas Alva Edison who said something like "I haven't failed. I've just discovered something that doesn't work." Like Edison, Joe is prepared to experiment and have a go at something different. This one was a bold move that perhaps should be marked down as a learning experience.

Lue

OK I said le SJ finish before rating and I did. I gotta say, you earned this low rating. The story was rambling and disjointed. I guess you tied up loose ends...somewhat. I dont read LW often because it is filled with cuck stories. Your synopsis sounded interesting, so I checked it out. If I read this cat I am looking for a BTB. Sadly, your story was, in addition to rambling, just plain boring. Doubt I will read you again. I will throw you a bone though. If someone doesn't like cheating spouses or cucks, and it's completely understandable not to like cuck stories, how are cucks even a man? But if they dont like it, then dont read the story. It's like the Kardashians on tv. I know they are gutter trash, so I dont watch them. And second, how does anyone rate a story without reading it. I gave it a 2, but I read it. For all they know, the end could have had the plot twist they wanted. They're probably all cucks themselves, protesting to cover up their own cucky guilt. Hate to tell you SJ, story sucked. But they suck more.

Really, you didn't read it but you felt compelled to write a comment, I look forward to reading your next contribution to this site, oh no I won't will I? Well you will, but only as critic, pal you are one big tosser, either don't read and don't comment or read in full and then comment BUT remember this is only fiction. I hate the stories where the wife turns into the bitch from hell but this is nowhere near that type here.

Re story, I am glad I got the idea of the way the story was written was correct, but I don't think MGM will be buying the rights any time soon lol. I overscored this with a 4* basically to write off some of the 1*s. For me it was a 3*, ie OK but not the greatest.

JJ

It is up to the writer to decide if his experiment went well or not...All I can say is that the first 5 parts were confused, but the last two parts were much more clear and that made the story grow in intensity...So in the end a good story due to these last parts...3*

annony is an old fat ugly fag!!!!

but ending was weak. So much more could've been done wiht these characters.

fat or anything then a faggot.

as a long time reader of this topic I can honestly say that you achieved a miracle here.....you gave us around 10 characters of which not one had likable quality about them...and the only story line that interested me you completely gloss over any showdown after dan see's his wife walking towards the door to her hotel room with her boss. I don't consider him falling to the ground and she seeing him leave a showdown......and then Dan just suddenly believes her when she say she never cheated with her boss.....sad......sad...a waste of my time and 10 fictional characters.

If there is one thing I've learned from this experiment (and I've learned many things, making this entire painful process worthwhile) it's that LW readers don't see the characters in a story as they are depicted. Instead they project whatever qualities they want to see onto those characters.

What happened with Dan and Denise is exactly what I wrote, and nothing more. Her dinner with her manager wasn't a "date", as there was no romantic involvement there. After the scuffle in the parking lot, Denise said good-bye to her manager, and that was that. Aside from that one kiss, she never "cheated" on Dan.

Readers don't want to hear that, though. In their minds, all women are slutty, selfish cheaters, so whatever I depicted can't possibly be the whole story. There must be more to it, so they simply insert their own ending into the story.

From a psychological aspect, it is absolutely fascinating. It seems about half of the readers (among those who actually commented on the story) found Dan to be an insecure wimp, and the other half thought he should have filed for divorce immediately.

There is no allowance made for character development in LW stories. Readers want simple characters who act predictably. A character is either pure evil or pure good, and there is no gray area between. If a character begins a story as evil, he/she cannot become good -- and vice-versa.

Show me a story with simplistic, one-dimensional, predictable characters who act consistently and logically, and I'll show you a terribly boring story. I know that many LW readers have recently admitted what I've suspected for years and embraced their fondness for cookie-cutter, paint-by-numbers, "McDonald's fries" stories. If that is what you're looking for, you won't ever get that from me.

stupid cuck shit.

where is there any concrete proof to prove Tom's guilt

...situations, jumping back and forth in that fashion only served to confuse the entire thing for me. Perhaps it was because the transitions were so abrupt, perhaps there were too many storylines to keepe them straight with the several days between readings,perhaps it was simply a big confusing mess.

I stayed with you throughout, but the thing devolved into one muddy disappointment after another. Too many parts of the storyline were left out as we skipped back an forth, it was like a series of disjointed photograph sequences. They progressed forward through time, but were often too far apart to allow a connection between the current one and the next one. Also, too much was suggested and not said. Like the reader is at a party in a conversation with two of his friends. They were both at an event the third was not. They keep talking about things that happened at the event, but offer no continuity and making partial reference to things they both saw, but never fully spelling it out. To the third person in the conversation, it was disconnected, full of innuendo, but not cohesive enough for him to enjoy or participate. A little while later, he makes his excuses and leaves to find other partners more engaged in rational and/or fun conversation he can relate to and participate in.

Ya, dangling participle. Sue me. But I didn't leave you confused with my point. I didn't dump you into a bowl of spaghetti and leave you to figure out some way to organize it all into a sensible dish.

Ah! These metaphors aren't working! Look. It was a mess. A Gordian knot. In the end, it all sucked. I now feel a need to tie you down and interrogate you to get the rest of the details and transitions so any....ANY of the storylines in this story make a single, cohesive subplot.

It started out OK, but it is still your job to make it sensible, to connect the dots, and to tell complete stories.

While intriguing, I think each and all off them would be better off told as a series or sequence of stories about different families in the community. Then, you'd have to fill the gaps you so obviously left in this one....leaving us to guess at what may have actually happened.

No. Thank. You.

It's a true rarity when there is any concrete proof of any wrongdoing in any crime. Unless you have video proof or multiple eyewitnesses, guilt or innocence is determined by a preponderance of evidence. In this case, we have the recording with Tom's voice, we have the large withdrawal from his bank account, and we have his wife's disappearance.

We also don't know what may have happened after the interrogation scene. Maybe the cops were able to locate the gang members based on Karla's description. Maybe Tom was so mentally unstable he confessed. I have no doubt that the readers would love for me to write another chapter and fill in those gaps! LOL.

Of all the various plots in this story, I felt that only Dan and Denise's story would stand on its own. Maybe I'll do another experiment with just the two of them.

I guess I need an example where I left too many gaps in the story, because I don't see it. As I wrote earlier, readers seem to invent gaps and then fill them in with their own ideas, which causes confusion. For example one reader insists that Denise must have cheated, and Dan is a fool for believing her. There is no reason for that reader to believe such a thing based on the story I wrote.

Thanks for your thoughtful comment.

I'll take this one step further. Some of the gaps I left in this story were intentional, as I wanted the readers to be left guessing for the purpose of a later payoff. For example, when Andrew left Denise sitting at the bar and gave her his room number, I wanted the readers to wonder: did she or didn't she? The same is true of their walk across the parking lot when they approached her room. Would she or wouldn't she?

The answers to those questions were revealed at the end of the story when Denise tells Dan she never had sex with Andrew. Now, either she's telling the truth or she's a dirty stinking liar. Your view on that is likely clouded by your own experience and prejudice. The character that I actually wrote did not have sex with Andrew. If you insist she did, then that leaves gaps in the story.

You have to understand that when you deal with a retard like swingerjoe that not only are you reading at best a mediocre story but when he branches out into another field where he has no fucking clue it is best not to listen to him. The burden of proof in a criminal case is not by a preponderance of the evidence. That would mean you only have to believe 51% a person is guilty to convict him. The real burden of proof in a criminal case is beyond a reasonable doubt. Fucktards like swingerjoe can't grasp simple facts that everybody else understands.

Glad to see you took a step back from child porn, too bad Alex has to die but the irony is a pretty interesting commentary on social mores: You can depict a 10 yr old taking a hit to the melon and die but you can't write about consensual sex with a 17 yr old...violence is good, sex is bad.

Karla and Tom? Well that's just bizarre. Sunil and whatshisname: likely an honor killing in her future, Art? If he's been watching her webcasts, I'm pretty sure he wasn't there advice on how to convince his wife to have another baby.

Whatever, I give it a 4 because the author wanted to entertain us and invested a lot of his time into it. Despite the hiccups, it was pretty entertaining.

Although swingerjoe is right to some extent, I would respectfully add that only when a preponderance of evidence causes a jury to believe a crime was committed beyond a reasonable doubt can a guilty verdict be rendered. A preponderance of evidence, in and of itself, is not enough to secure a conviction. (See the OJ Simpson case as one famous example.)

Fixed it for you, anony. You don't have to be such an angry asshole to get your point across.

You are guilty of all the very things you accuse others of doing. In your envy and jealousy of better writers, you constantly take shots at them. You accusing other writers of writing one dimensional characters is laughable. That's the only kind of characters you write. Your characters have not one touch of any common humanity. They are, without variation, walking sexual organs. If you were writing a stroke story, that would be fine, but you claim to be writing these fully developed, intriguing and human characters. It can't be a stroke story because you don't know how to write sex. The characters have not a spark of romance, empathy, tragedy or tension. Their sole aim and purpose for existing is to fuck.

In your mind, not only are all women selfish slutty cheaters, but all men are, as well. That's the characters you write, time after time. Their whole reason for living is to fuck, and, hopefully, fuck over, as many people as possible.

Readers, myself included, want characters that are human, not the walking gonads that you write. We want someone to cheer for. When you write your stories about degraded and disgusting characters without a single redeeming social grace, that no one would like to have as a friend, that no one would want for a neighbor, of course no one is going to like your characters. No one would want your characters living next door. I would be afraid they would rape my wife or molest my children. Those are the characters you write, without variation.

Yours is a story with simplistic, one-dimensional, predictable characters who act consistently. They are consistently illogical and despicable. So, your stories are terribly boring. Then you couldn't resist taking a shot at your betters. Your stories are exactly cookie-cutter, paint by the numbers stories. They may be different numbers than most people would use. You seem to use only irrational numbers so that no one can understand the stories. Then you flood the comment section with explanations of your stories. Evidently, you are such a poor writer than no one can understand them without long explanations. They aren't "McDonald's fries," stories. Those are sometimes delicious. They're the limp soggy fries that McDonald's threw out. That's all we get from you. Limp soggy fries, all exactly the same.

Thanks for contributing another moronic comment on a story you didn't read. This story seems to have drawn all of the angry anonies out into the open. (Or maybe it's just one pathetic dude returning to this story over and over again.)

I've especially enjoyed watching the votes during this entire series. I've never seen so votes as a percentage of clicks. It usually takes 100,000 clicks to generate 200 votes, yet almost every chapter of this story has 180+ votes! It's almost as if an army of anonies are clicking on this story for the sole purpose of leaving their one-bombs!

I hate to break it to you all, but I really don't give a fuck about your one-bombs and your moronic comments that have nothing to do with my story. I don't know what you think you're accomplishing, but it sure seems like a giant waste of time. (Then again, you may have nothing better to do.)

The story of Tom and Karla is (very) loosely based on a real life contract killing by a husband on his wife. (Google "Noela Rukundo".)

In that case, the husband confessed to the crime and was sentenced to nine years in prison. I chose to end Tom & Karla's story where I did, as describing the process of gathering evidence and a long trial just didn't interest me. I'd rather leave it to the readers to decide their fates. If you want to call that a "gap" (at the end of the story!) then that's fine, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

This is writing excersice that will leave you with some lessons learned. Its too bad most of the comments only deal with things out of your control.

First of all I enjoyed the premise you brought forward of different dranas plaing out and the interaction between them. You achieved your goal, kept it interesting and in the end the characters carried the plot. They are not all likeable but they are human. Likeable characters is an ignorant excuse anyway for not liking a story. When I read nonfiction about Hitler its not because I like him. When I watch House of Cards, which I argue doesn't have a single likeable character, its for entertainment and because the characters are interesting.

The ending felt rushed. The lead up was very well paced and was building nicely. However, everone knew chapter 7 was the money shot and it seemed you were determined to make it fit in this box. Would like to know how the Indian couple fared and how the rapist was prosecuted but you can't go into detail about that because all those characters are underage you damn pedophile.

All I can say is that I wish more authors went with a format like this because it is underutilized and brings in some nice elements like little keague. (Not that I mind getting under the hood of a muscle car once in a while.)

Because of the varied plotlines and time between releases, a quick synopsis at the start of each chapter might help as a refresher.

Dont feel lonely. Nobody really gives a fuck about you either.

"Paint by the numbers" stories get more than 180 votes in the first hour. Just shows how marginalized and what a joke you are.

Okay, here I go.

First off, once the entire story was submitted, I was able to read it without the interruptions. As a whole, the story is pretty interesting, but also a little bit boring. Sorry Joe. I'd want honesty from you, so I have to give it to you.

The multi-couple thing would have worked better if we were able to get to know the couples more. To do groundwork for complex characters, you need to flesh out feelings and situations so that the audience gets to know them. This is difficult with one couple. To do it for 4, you need to invest serious time. Unfortunately, with this format, we would have probably needed each chapter to be at least 3-4 pages long, In my limited experience, each Lit page is about 7 Word pages, so this story would have been a novel when you were done. Who has that kind of time? So this story was doomed from the start. When you add in the other interruptions that you couldn't control, you have a failed experiment.

However, there were some positives.

The couple that intrigued me the most was Dan and Denise, because they were the most relatable. At least to me. You made Dan very human with realistic faults. Was he a good husband, a good father, or was he bad? Answer: he was both. just like the rest of us. My only quibble with them is that you made their story kind of one sided. Other than the kiss, I really didn't get to know Denise as well as Dan. They could have made a really interesting story if you drew them out some more.

The other couple of intrigue was Tom and Karla. Now, I may have missed it, but why did he try to have her killed? Is that what the gangbangs were about? I didn't make that connection. You may have to explain that one kindergarten style. But with them, you have a bit of a twist to the cuckold thing, as well as a mystery to be solved. They would have made a REALLY interesting story. I would have loved to hear his side of things. What was he thinking? Was there conflict in his mind? Did he regret having to do it? What made him snap? Once you pulled the rug out from under us with the murder plot, that story would have been off the chains.

The thing with the daughters was a little bit too close to home for me. I have a teenager who is in high school, so I cringed when I read that. I was actually happy that you didn't flesh that out too much.

I really didn't connect with the other couple, so I skimmed a lot with them. Sorry.

Overall, I would have to give you a 3, but that is only because of the premise that you set. This could have been interesting. The actual application of it gets a 2.

Those are my notes. Take what you helps you out, and jettison the rest. Good luck in the future.

Excellent, helpful, constructive, and insightful commentary. Thank you. I don't have as much time to write as I used to, so this one took me between 6-8 weeks to write. Prior to that, I probably spent six months formulating all of these stories in my head. So, you're right, I feel I put enough effort into this story as it is -- especially given the payoff.

As I wrote last week, I've discovered that the amount of time and effort I put into my stories is inversely proportional to the feedback I get. I tapped out my "RLmann" tale in twenty minutes with my thumbs and submitted without editing. That story rates over 4.0 and earned kudos from the BTB Brigade. If that were my reason for writing, I would do nothing but that!

I'm working pulling out the Dan and Denise story from this one, as yet another experiment. When I do, I'll flesh out those characters a little more. You're right that I didn't give Denise a lot of time and character development.

Re. Tom and Karla, Tom is (as Hank aptly noted) a whacko-bird. He's a long-haired, tattooed tough guy-wannabe who just can't deal with who he is and what turns him on. I showed him tossing his glass against the wall in one scene, and covering his self portrait with a bucket of paint in another. I thought I had established that he was mentally unstable! LOL. I never thought those two would make a good story on their own, but maybe I'm wrong.

The story of Art and Roxeane was supposed to show how a "man-child" like Art learned to step up, take responsibility for his family, and recommit to the woman he loves. Swing and a miss!

If I went into any more detail about Sunil and Asha, readers really wouldn't bitched about having too many characters. Their story wasn't really central to Art's. I just thought that whole relationship was interesting and scandalous, and would capture the readers' attentions. Strike two!

Oh, well. Hey, I tried.

Hey joe if Denise didn't cheat on Dan , it sure did soulf like he was well on his way to fucking her in her hotel room . There was what I would call emontial cheating with a sneaky kiss mixed in. Also that kissed caused hubby to flip out and ask her to move out because he suspected more. Then feeling bad and wanting to make up catches her coming to her hotel room late with none other than the boss who's ruining their lives and trying his hardest to fuck her. On top of all that the poor bastard hubby has to be further humiliated by getting his ass kick by the guy in front of his wife. She caused all this by her attitude and just telling her boss she's not interested once . If he keeps coming then tell him last chance before she goes to HR but she ate out with him and put herself in a position to cheat. Then goes out with him after hubby kicks her out because of the kiss. Not a good move. Enjoyed the story and would like a nice follow up to Dan and Denise.

But I don't know half a dozen Lit. authors who could have pulled this off. I thought it had good potential, but was sunk by its own weight and complexity. Also the wind up was contrived and unsatisfying, as was most of the body of the story. But the introduction was well done.

I hope you will try some more.

I'll comment on all of the parts as that is what I read being a late comer. One of the hardest kinds of stories to write I think. It kept my attention all the way through. great wrap up and lessons learned. I found it intriguing and life like. Thanks for your effort.

It is interesting what sticks with a reader. The part where the son is hit by the pitch in the head, it hits his temple area. Now anyone who has ever played or coached little league knows that the helmets that they are REQUIRED to wear cover this area. It cover the whole head down over the temple and ears. You could get hit in the corner of the eye, but that is about it. And little things like that ruin credibility of the tale. Not in a big way, but it distracted me. I know no other commenter offered this point, but it belongs to the main point that facts need to be realistic to be credible.

Although modern-day helmets protect most of the skull, a pitch can still get to the temple area. One example is Carlos Gomez, who was hit in the temple by a Noah Syndergaard pitch last year. It's rare, but it can happen (especially with an ill-fitting little league helmet.)

Swingerjoe, you laughed off the comments about character development failures and shortness of chapter length. But your own comments explaining your story' characters proved that point.

Read all the chapters at one sitting and the potential of this story really shows. Some parts really need to be expanded. For example Dan & Denise. Art & his daughter & Roxanne, his wife.

I thought the ending was rushed.

I am definitely happy to hear you will post again.

Thank you for your effort.

AMerryman

you submitted ch. 07 yesterday. Is this Ch. 08?

I've read the all the chapters through to the end what a pathetic society you painted. I found it hard even to give it one star.

stupid cuck shit.

A great series. And I admire your persistence in the face of the wall of ignorance you confront. I know it was necessary for the plot but it was seriously bad timing by Denise, don't you think?

I am glad I didn't read it all total rubbish get a life

nothing about this colossal waste of my time reading all this so-called story..

SOUNDS MORE LIKE A HARLIQUIN ROMANCE THAT LITEROTICA, WHAT A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME READING IT .

The Dan and Denise story was the only one of any real interest to me. But Denise is practically an enigma, and the resolution after the hotel room incident was lacking. Denise may not have cheated (it isn't clear if she would have slept with Andrew or not that night, though livking her out for a kiss is juvenile given the context) physically, but there us done debate about emotionally. And yet Dan (the more developed chatacter) does his nea culpa and they reconcile. They had been to therapy so she would know that just saying she another slept with Andrew was insufficient, but nothing really happens to make the reconciliation plausible, or if it does, it happens off page. Too much effort has to switch to the other couples. 3 stars.