All Comments on 'When We Were Married Ch. 02B'

instead of making him stud, it is better to use his inner good qualities for him to get back in game. Attractive woman does not want stud as a partner always. Only those who are nypho or who think life is always about sex, needs that type of man. and they spend there old age lonely without partner. When she fond a lover she was attractive. which will eventually vanish and she will be old fart, her lover came to her just because she was attractive, when she wont be be anymore, he will leave, and he is younger too, why would he waste his life for her. If Bill find a woman now, she will be attracted to inner him not how he looks. She will be with him, weather he become attractive or not in physical looks. you put some crap too that i just skipped (which does not concern story, you could have just told is in few lines instead of full conversation) so short after long wait but worth reading. good continuation. keep writing. best of luck with readers.

Love the story, keep up the good writing

to read the rest of it PLEASE speed up the process.

Loved this chapter, probably what a guy in his situation would do, i.e. starting to work out and attend boxing classes. This chapter brought back memories...I remember getting smacked down in a nightclub when I was 24, I won`t ever forget the humiliation (why is that men in todays developed society feel humiliated when they`ve been physically overpowered? Isn`t that caveman response?). Well, I did the same thing as Bill after that: started boxing. You get in to it pretty quick, it made wonders for my self confidence.

What comes next? In real life "Bill" would probably start to study the seduction/pick up/The Game/Neil Strauss/etc-literature and try to get laid as often as possible in order to restore that part of his self confidence. And yes, even men who are 40+ get stuck in the seduction subculture with amazing results. There are so many beautiful and interesting women in the world that it is pretty useless to get stuck up mentally on an ex-wife. The same thing applies to women who has been wronged.

All in all, very good Daniel! This series has great potential and please take your time. Don`t rush (unless you want to).

I Just cannot see to grasp how a DA who could pull a gun on one of the wealthist men in the country who threaten the DA's family could handle something like this sooooo fucking badly....

the inconsistency is staggering.

I know these are short chapters but keep in mind how ABSOLUTE Bill was to the whore wife Debbie in the phone conversation.

"......Listen to me carefully. Unless one of the kids is hurt, don't call me again. I won't take your calls anymore. Anything we have to say goes through our attorneys. Goodbye."...........

Bill seems to be getting in shape to FIGHT for his wife -- WHY?

Look we all know one day debbie and bill will have a conversation... face to face. And we all know thast Bill despite what he said above IS going to sit their and listen about how this as Mostly HIS fault.

I sure hope the email thing and the shaved pussy thing do NOT disappear from the story.

of this story, to my mind at least, is that you've set up the characters initially so well--and set up their foibles and weaknesses as well as their strengths and desires--that the payoff is now satisfying as we see the changes creep in. Bill didn't just decide to change his life overnight, which is what 99% of the other stories on this site do with similar characters. Rather, he went through the depression and denial stages, anger, and so on, and now he's accepting what has happened and, after two months, begun charting his course of action. Debbie, on the other hand, almost sounds like she's pleading with herself that she doesn't love Bill any more. She also sounds like she's feeling out the waters when she tells him he still loves her. In other words, she didn't realize right after banging Doug that she shouldn't have done it, that it wasn't as good as it had been with Bill, et cetera ad nauseum. Again, the latter is what 99% of the stories on this site do with similar characters.

No, the real beauty of this is that it is (1) an original treatment of the situation and (2) far more believable than 99% of the other stories dealing with the same issues. Someone want to tell me what's so original about dealing with this realistically rather than in fantasy land? My guess is that it's just because you're (1) a great fucking writer who (2) has extraordinary powers of observation and analysis.

Please keep up the great work on this.

I believe your going in the right direction. Another comment left said something about not making him into a stud. I would have to say its necessary for him to recover some of his pride. and here its explained well.

I like the parts with his wife so far. I wonder about the kids and the fall out there.

thanks for writing.

I like the pace of your story DQS; it seems to be working at very slowly revealing new facets of your characters. I do like the signs in the wife that she has a huge dollop of humanity that her middle-aged, nascent, sexuality can't completely overwhelm. Right now she seems just a bit more realisticly drawn than Bill, but at the pace you are moving it will take a while to get the measure of these folks. I am very much on the plus side of your story.

"And now it was just a broken mess on a kitchen floor. The memories were gone, the marriage was gone. The love was gone. How could she be panting under Doug and loving the feel of his hard cock squirting his hot cum deep inside her and still feel this way, about a knick knack?

It was like life. You plan for things to stay solid and be there forever. But they break and they wind up thrown in the trash. Just like her and Bill. But it wasn't her fault. She knew that. It was Bill, the sorry bastard. He had thrown their life away.

She cleaned up the mess, put it in the trash can, and walked back toward her bedroom. Her bedroom now. Not their bedroom anymore. It was just the way it was, now."

This is great writing and it shows so much about her character... and her lack of character. It also shows why without a great deal of work there is no basis for reconciliation. She is too shallow, too self-centered and too lacking in morals to be worthy of any mature adult. I can understand her sense of loss at her physical beauty and the vitality of youth... and it just makes me think less of her.

One can not make major changes in life without second thoughts, but what are her regrets, that her new lover doesn't know where the sheets are? How banal! You really can't turn this into anything deeper than looking upon her former husband not as a mate, but a helper, a role that is played by a rommate not a soul mate. It's a profound statement that not only doesn't she love him now, it is highly doubtful that she ever was capable of real love. Love is, as the departed Joespehus once wrote... "'True love isn't flowers and candy on Valentine's day. True love isn't a feeling or an emotion. True love is wanting the very best for someone and being willing to sacrifice so they can achieve it.'

Then there's the telephone call. Yes, she's correct they will always have each other in their lives because of their children. They will need to be civil to each other... but you can be civil to someone you hold in great contempt. And even from this conversation the shallowness of her "gee I guess I could have handled this better but why won't you just be happy for me and be the happy man who loved me so I don't have to feel bad. That way I can have my young stud without these feelings of guilt I'm beginning to have?"

Not much there to work with!

Then there's the gym rat, I'm going fix things by getting in shape and being able to physically beat the hell out of my rival... dud, can you talk about immature? No, men don't remain at heart 13 year olds. Some of us grow up and stop suffering from testosterone poisoning someplace around our mid thirties. It is worthy and even admirable to want to improve your body to learn the discipline of exercise and even the "manly arts," but for heavens sake do it for yourself, not to beat up your rival, impress a woman or do a playground NAH NAH to your ex-wife.

I like the way you've shown him as both a good lawyer and administrator, you're showing a broadening of his character. I've been married 41 years and I don't know how I would have reacted if my wife, my life had told me she didn't love and and taken up with a young stud. I suppose that some craziness is to be expected, but once he's built back his confidence in himself I hope he does realize that men use the tools they have to win fights, they don't try to attack the other guys strengths, they attack his weakness. The stud has a background in boxing... but he doesn't have the life insights and legal background that Bill has. Use your strengths, not your weaknesses.

she shit on him in always,now let him shit back on her.she fucking her lover in their house while still married in front of their kids.let him treat her as the tramp she is as a wife.destroy her and her lover.stop trying to play nice this war.

looking forward to reading more of this story. I love the complex relationships and the three dimensional characters that you've written. Life is not black and white but many shades of gray. Keep up the good work. Anxiously waiting for the next installment.

I'm not sure whether he wants actually to fight for his wife - rather he wants to be ABLE to fight her lover, any lover, if he ever has to. More powerfully, he wants her to KNOW he is capable of winning, to know what she threw away, a good, faithful man who's now as tough physically as he is mentally.

He's still obviously at sixes and sevens at the moment but he's learning, getting stronger in his resolve to make the most of his unwanted sorrow. My thought is he will get there, strong and resolute - and with that, very attractive to other women, as opposed to the scene in the first chapter when his secretary wounded him somewhat with her unflattering summation of his sex appeal to her.

I liked the fact that you introduced the thoughts of his wife and captured the first seeds of doubt, if not regret. This doesn't mean to say that she's going to change her spots; unlikely in fact, but she'll possibly keep trying to blame her increasing dissatisfaction on Bill until she has an epiphany of sorts. Maybe that won't happen - as painted so far she sounds too shallow - although who knows, people can change.

I hope they don't get back together, but it's not my story.

Very good work Daniel - thank you once again for this. As Harry has pointed out, there are issues to be resolved, but I think you are going the right way.

is that we keep having to wait for the next installment! It is beautifully written, thoughtful, full of feeling, and with a mostly (not entirely) realistic sense to it. (Bill as a gimlet-eyed killer, facing down the rich father, was a bit fantastical, though very satisfying). I absolutely loved the scene with the broken snow-globe.

You have our full attention, and our gratitude for the fascinating and painful world you're creating for us. I look forward eagerly to new installments and to seeing where you take these characters.

With thanks and admiration, ohio

This reads like real life to me, so keep it up. I think you are sowing the seeds of discontent in the happy lovers home already and glad to see it appearing. She will age and will also find the mind blowing sex will fade and they will have little in common. It may take six months, or six years, but it will happen, or at least it does in real life.

If you choose to get them back together, I hope she has had the good sense to get rid of the shaved pubic area. Nothing more ridiculous than a forty plus woman trying to look like a teenager.

The trips to the gym are needed to develop the character and to give your male lead some self esteem. He needs to start feeling better about himself outside of his job, which we already know he is good at. Harry in Va commented that the scene in the office where he threatened the Texas oil man was out of character. Actually it probably is not, because our hero is an agressive shark in his job, he just forgot to carry some of that over into his marriage. Will these changes save the day, does he want it to, ahhh more questions to be resolved.

>>

"It's the truth and you know it, Debbie. You're special. We're special together. I thought I knew what great sex was, but now..."

She knew it was the truth. It was like that for her too. Then something started to enter her head, a thought, and she shook it as if to physically throw it out. To stop thinking she pushed herself away from him and rolled to the edge of the bed.

>>

We humans seem to think in the very short term. How it is today is how it always was and always will be. She gets hot for another man, a stud by the way. It didn't start out to be sexual even with the attraction there. She is swayed by her emotions and sexual desires -- who at some time or another doesn't. She has to tell herself and her husband that she doesn't love him anymore. How else could she do what she is did and is doing. 20 years of love doesn't get washed away in a few months. She is now being pulled and torn by her real feelings for her husband. I so admire her for making the call to Bill. That took guts. She isn't hurting like Bill and should be given some slack. Why, because she can't really see how he could be hurting like he is.

So many of the stories take truly wonderful people and in retroactively turn them into pieces of shit. Someone has commented already about how Bill is acting out of character for someone who is as successful as he is professionally. His treatment of his wife on the phone and his thoughts about her are beginning to leave me with a bad taste in my mouth. He claims to be such an insightful person but actually he is being less than insightful about his wife.

In contrast to what some are saying, it's clear she loves Bill. It is not clear as is being shown as the story develops that he loves her. For years he chose work over her. He is acting like many Anonymous commenters reveal themselves to be -- a mean-spirited and nasty man.

No, Bill is being developed as someone I distinctly dislike and if it continues to go this way, I will think his wife made the right decision for all the wrong reasons. This doesn't have to be a "forgive and forget" story nor does it have to be one person totally an asshole who is right about his ex.

. . . this is what makes this story quite remarkable.

I enjoy reading it, but as OHIO said, the wait in between, that's the little detail I don't like.

Good story keep writing.

Best regards

"His treatment of his wife on the phone and his thoughts about her are beginning to leave me with a bad taste in my mouth."

I think I understand that point of view but have to disagree with it strongly. If she'd taken the time to point out to her justice-driven husband that he needed to cut back, he probably would have. He was sailing along, blithely unknowing about her dissatisfaction, and she didn't have the decency to talk to him. He was stupid in a way because he trusted her. There is fault on both sides but she's the one who emotionally betrayed him, deliberately, over months. He was just fat, dumb and happy, but would never have betrayed her.

Take the time..don't rush this one just for the masses..!!

This story has us hooked.. the emotions so real .. it would be such a shame to quickly try and wrap it up to end it..

As with any story..to see good triumph over evil is what we would like to see, and the underdog to become top dog..!

Revenge is a dish best served cold....!

Good story so far, sad, but good. On with the next chapter.

Great chapter. Unlike some of the other comments posted about this chapter, I understand where Bill is coming from when he talks with his wife on the phone. It doesn't matter how smart or accomplished we are. In this situation, he would respond emotionally. As an attorney, he would respond by attacking.

His actions are belivable and justified, hope he finds better digs. Can't wait for the rest so it must be good. Great to read about men acting like men, not little gay boys, thanks for giving me something to read on lit.

Right up front I'll tell you that this is a great story and I am enjoying it to the maximum. Your writing makes me identify with your entire cast of characters and makes it seem as if it happening before my eyes. Once again just write at your pace but I was disappointed that you mentioned you had a life outside writing and had other obligations. Thank you for sharing this fantastic story with us. To me this is a special story and you are a special writer. Can't get enough of your creativity. Thanks again for sharing!

Great story. I'm really enjoying it.

I am in this for the long haul so write as you can I I will read it. One note though: if Bill and Debbie end up back together I'm going to be extremely disappointed.

Thanks again.

Great Chapter. Really liked the way Bill took the sergeants advice and is doing something other than sink slowly into the bottle and commit professional suicide as well as losing his home, family and wife.

So, where do we go, he will never beat the younger guy, but maybe he will be able to at least hold his own and walk away feeling like a man. Yes, we all have a little caveman in us. That is life. But really like the way he is working on staying sober and abusing his body in the gym.

Now Bill will need someone to talk about his feelings. Help him understand himself better. Plus I believe he will be next State Attorney General when his boss is elected govenor. That is his next professional step. His life steps will be much harder and treacherous for him to survive. He has a lot of issues and well deserved anger to resolve so he can live another day.

So far everyone is real, and the problems and their blemishes many. No one is innocent.

Really enjoying the story. Keep it real and will be waiting for your next chapter.

Thanks

At last another story that has grabbed my attention and as soon as I get up makes me check out Lit for the next chapter. It is like a good book that you can not put down, but we do as we have to work.

No need to add my thoughts about the story as they have all been covered by other comments.

Like all the others just waiting for the next chapter.

you are a Blithering idiot and a Moral relativist. you arent related to matt Moreau or slirpuff are you ?

You wrote...

"In contrast to what some are saying, it's clear she loves Bill....."

IT is? how is that CLEAR you fucking idiot?

from the emails where she shits on him?

or maybe it was when the wife said this to the other man she was / is fucking

"ohhhhh....my god...baby....baby, don't move...leave it in there."

yeah I see your point size14shoe... whenever I am with a woman and she says to me I know she really does love some other guy....

you ADMIRE the wife for calling Bill?... according to you "that took Guts". so did leaving him and cheating on him....

Guess you admire THAT as well... right?.

then for some dumb fuck reason you assert that she should be given some "slack" becuase .... folks try not to bust out laughing when you read what size14shoe wrote here...

........" because she can't really see how he could be hurting like he is>>>'

so becuase the wife is self centered shallow cunt that is unable to see how here actions have hurt someone else we should give her a 2nd chance?

Oh my god.

THEN because Bill said something SLIGHTLY harsh to the wife Now you are blaming ONLY bill.

" ...His treatment of his wife on the phone and his thoughts about her are beginning to leave me with a bad taste in my mouth...."

Pay attention Moron...

falling out of love is NOT a justification to Cheat

These chapters are telling a story of life as we head to the stories conclusion. The intricacies of the situation and the lives of the characters are woven together like an heirloom quilt. Well done.

And I am wondering where this is all headed.

Debbie's callousness on the phone left me gritting my teeth! Bill's demeanor was perfectly natural. The hurt he is feeling is still just devastating.

Again I will be waiting for more words on this compelling story!

Thanks for writing!

Really, really good.

I enjoyed this chapter very much, nice to see Debbie feeling some guilt and some remorse. What was even better was his response to her phone call. <P>

Good to see Bill went on his self improvement plan. A complete changeover would be appropriate. My first supervisor was twenty years older than me with thinning hair. He kept it closely cropped and had a well trimmed mustache and beard. The look was quite striking. At that time in my life, I was partial to men in uniform. Now it’s Armani suits.

Like always, it seems that some will find fault, then along come others that use the comments boards to spew their own versions of hate.

As I read them, it would appear it is time for the author to use his delete option on those who have made themselves worthy of it.

Meanwhile, I again wait eagerly for the next chapter.

MGM

and other family members with her emails, and then pulling a gun on the rich bastard who threatened he and his family, gives us a split personality, not just a person with deep human flaws to resolve during the story. He needs more than counseling, he needs a welding torch! You really need to do something about this! Bill telling his wife that he will not take her calls anymore is not a statement of strength. Just the opposite. Talking to her and taking her to task over the emails and exactly what she has done to the once good marriage is real strength of character. People who won't talk to each other are the real wimps, male or female!

I love imperfect characters because they are like the rest of us. I think it is good to see someone act like a real person and not a cartoon character. The boxing thing is a good example. I got suckered and lost a fight. Next 6 months I worked out and ran all the time. Did not have to re-fight the guy because I just felt so much better about my self he was not a threat to me anymore in any way.

another great um...half-chapter? LOL. anyway, im loving this story. characters and dialogues are way above the norm. thanks and take your time. just not too much, LOL

Bear in mind he's a prosecutor. She's admitted she's sorry for the way she did things, but she doesn't know he knows about the emails. He might think there's a more appropriate time to reveal that and he could be right.

In the meantime I'm sure he realises that not being able to talk to him will be the cross she has to bear for the way she treated him. It will also slowly drive her nuts not to be able to talk to the man she professed to love for all those years. I don't see that as a weakness; I see smartness. She can't talk cosily to hubby/ex-hubby anymore to absolve herself and somehow blame him for her heinous double-cross. At some time in the future, maybe the divorce hearing when there may be a financial reward for email revelation, there'll come a time when he can deliver his evidence to maximum effect.

This third(?) chapter even got here faster than I expected!

Taking to the gymn is much better for Bill than going to bars.

He will feel physically better and will start getting his emotional balance back again. Remember though that at the moment he seems incapable

of doing what is necessary to get an erection and this may be the thermometer. Loved the insight into Debby that was given. I would have liked to read the chat with his son...

Thankfully, now, he's decided to get himself back in shape. But since it seems his plan is to be able to physically take it to his rival, I would think that he would also be using his real strengths to take it to Doug. Specifically, I would think that a hot shot lawyer wouldn't hesitate to sue Doug for alienation of affection and also get some sort of injunction barring Doug from HIS house (is he still paying the mortgage and is his paycheck going into the house account?). These actions, in his arena, would at least provide obstacles and irritants to the "loving" couple. I hope his plan isn't to take her back, but just to show her what she lost.

You shocked and surprised me with this one. I wasn’t expecting the next chapter to come out so soon, but — my heartfelt thanks for a quick update.

I said in the earlier chapter that Bill needs — motivation. This chapter was moved in the right path. It’ll take some time to get back in shape and to learn the boxing, but he’ll gain confidence, and self esteem. It’s good to hit the gym and loose some fats than sulk, drink, and feel pity. The only other thing remains is — his sexual needs. Debbie is getting it from Doug, maybe he should look out for “company”. Of course, that was one of the main problems. Like I said, he needs — motivation.

There were few things in this chapter which were very good like — Naturally, he'd have a big cock. Bastard couldn't be undersized, could he? Home wreckers never had small dicks. Some rule of nature, I guess — it’s is so very true. And of course the snow globe scene, it’s one of the best scenes I’ve read in a story.

Doug is using Debbie as a ladder to climb up in his career. He knows she’s a wife of a DA, and she’s having problems in her marriage. Its obvious Debbie too have connections, it’ll definitely help him move up. Like one of the readers said — he’s an opportunist.

*-*-*

"It's the truth and you know it, Debbie. You're special. We're special together. I thought I knew what great sex was, but now..."

She knew it was the truth. It was like that for her too. Then something started to enter her head, a thought, and she shook it as if to physically throw it out. To stop thinking she pushed herself away from him and rolled to the edge of the bed.

*-*-*

There’s a difference between 20 years of marriage and 20 “minutes” of outstanding sex. No matter how hot the sex was, no matter how much orgasm she had — she does know that it really isn’t “special” she just wants to feel young with her young stud. But truth to be told she has started missing Bill. Read this — She found herself starting to say, "You know where they are, dummy, in the closet over the-" And then she realized who she was talking to…

Conversation over the phone between Bill and Debbie was good. I wonder what actual Debbie wanted to “talk”? I tried, but still I’m not sure where this story will go. But there’s definitely going to be a fight between Bill and Doug.

I remember I said — take you own time, but now I’m going to take back my words. Please bring the next chapter quickly. I’ve never been so “connected” with a story before and never been so anxious.

Go for it Billy — Doug is not a machine, haha!

~Kelly~

After a killer start, the second chapter was a real letdown. I would call it primarily filler (or fluff).This chapter was back on track.

You do have a real talent and are already one of the finer cheating wives authors currently active.

I don't know about others, but I prefer longer chapters (6 pages?) rather than just getting into a great story and have it interrupted so soon.

BUT, above all, thanks for the entertainment.

I'd like to read a conversation between Bill and his kids. What is their take on the siatuation. How are they feeling about their mother bringing her "boyfriend/lover" to stay overnights, and it's not a "Rocket Science" the kids must be aware what Doug and Debbie must be doing.

Also, a heart-to-heart conversation between Bill and Debbie.

~Kelly~

I know the author realizes this, but many of the best authors on this site find this story compelling, not just us amateurs. I also find it telling that HIV still is reading the story while claiming it is the worst thing since the invention of paper.

I find the character development facinating. Layers upon layers are being revealed about Bill as well as the characters around him. Even his W is showing layers, conflicting yes, but realistic.

Since I don't write stories for a living but do write for a living and have made a good living doing it for 40 years, I do appreciate a well told story and this is one. I will confess that I don't read stories to find the flaws but for enjoyment. The flaws only are of concern when it messes up the enjoyment of the story. I can say, that any flaws, HIV not withstanding, are minor.

This is just a good story, plain and simple. I like the others anxiously await the next installment.

Fab story! But what about Bills kids? one month and only by accident his son answers the phone, it's the only time he ever has contact with them. Does'nt Bill have any involement with his kids? Where are they when Doug is fucking there mother? How do they regard and what are there feelings toward Doug or there mother? can't wait for furture chapters.

Not being the author of the story, I still give thanks to those who have given constructive criticism for this story which I am personally enjoying, even with its flaws.

To those authors such as OHIO, Harry and others, THANKS.

To size14shoe, What kind of a FUCKING idiot are you? I suspect you are a WIMP with strong overriding tendencies who enjoys sucking cum out of a fresh fucked pussy, and doesn't know what real man is really like.

My heartfelt thanks to the author for this story and am also having to wait for the next chapter. PLEASE HURRT.

With love and respect: TOM.

That was PLEASE HURRY.

but take your time, no matter howmany write hurry. don't do it. you need the time to make no plot mistakes and not forget characters which obviously have to be part of it. kids, ex-wife, friends ? and of course the storyline where you wanna go.

really good writing thanks for your time.

That was meant to say a strong overriding homosexual tendency to suck CUM instead of really sucking dick because you aren't man enough.

I have not had good interactions with lawyers. But I like this lawyer, this Bill character. Talk about being able to say, "I did it my way." or "I'm doing it my wya.", and "I feel ok because I'm doing my best." Yep, I like Bill a lot. He has a conscience, and his heart is in the right place. Hopefully his mind can continue to control both. Thank you for beginning to let Bill bring himself up from the hole . . . conjures images of Rise of the Phoenix.

Bill is going to the gym to get in shape and learn how to box. Why? Does he want to fight for Debbie? To physically beat up Doug? I don't think so. Up till now he has been reacting to events and now I think he is taking steps to take back some control and power over his own life. He felt demeaned and helpless when Doug smacked him around and he was only able to inflict damage with a sucker punch. Not exactly sporting but then nether is having an affair with a married woman. So Bill is becoming proactive. Probably a long time late but finally. He is a smart successful professional individual. Once he gets his game back he will not lack for female companionship and I would expect them to be at least 10 years younger than Debbie.<P>

This chapter fleshes Bill out as a much stronger character. A person who will pull a gun and threaten one of the richest men in America is not exactly wimp material. Quite a change from the earlier chapters.<P>

To the “it's clear that she loves Bill comment.” Say what!!!! How is it clear? Because she got a little maudlin on the phone? Let's see, she started meeting with Doug for months, exchanged intimate emails, dressed sexily for Doug and flaunted their relationship in front of her colleagues, shaved her pussy for who?, was totally put off by the sex Bill had with her, ran to Doug after Bill managed to get a lucky shot in, put a restraining order on Bill to bar him from his own home, filed for divorce, and brought her lover into her husband's house and bed. Oh yes, all actions of a loving spouse. But please Bill don't be mean to her on the phone. It will make her feel bad about herself. Give me a break.<P>

If she had a problem with him she should have insisted they discuss it. My wife would never let me get away with what he had done. Neither should she have. Except she didn't care. After she said “I do” the fighting for her should have been over.<P>

The white hot anger I would be feeling makes me marvel at Bill's restraint. But speaking of restraining orders why has Bill not gotten one barring Doug from the home and if not that certainly from spending the night? How could the “good mother” that Bill thought she was bring her lover into the house with minor children? Bill has to know enough judges that would agree that this was totally inappropriate to get an order. Make her go to his place to spend the night. And when she does get custody of the children and the house for her abandoning the children to be with her lover. <P>

But the real irony is that she does not love Doug. She may love the idea of being in love. She may love the newness of new love when it is all unique. But that doesn't last. Does Doug love her? Probably not. He loves the sex as does she but will you build a long term relationship on that? Doubtful. She almost 40. He's 10 years younger. Will he want children of his own? Will she give them to him? Better get started. Nope, this relationship is ultimately doomed. And then where will she be. As good looking as she is she will probably be able to line up another schmuck who will marry her but love. No she threw that away. With any luck Bill will have moved on. Please!<P>

Love it. Another winner. Thanks for sharing.

I love it Keep going.

On every posting of this story, numerous commenters have repeatedly cast Bill asunder for not exposing the e-mails he knows all about. I have no idea where the e-mails will be used in the story, if ever, but I wanted to point out a few obvious things. First, Bill is a very successful litigator. Second, successful litigators know that knowledge is power, and the more knowledge they have that their opponent doesn't have, the more power the litigator has in reserve.

Put another way, if Bill spilled his knowledge of the e-mails in Chapter 1, how will he ever know Debbie is lying to him when the inevitable confrontation occurs? If she knows up front that he knows everything from the beginning, she will tailor her answers accordingly and he'll have no meaningful way to find out if she's still lying to him at the end. If, however, he never tells her about the e-mails, he'll know whether she's being totally up front when he drags the whole sordid mess from her.

So yes, everyone, that's exactly how any attorney with half a brain and no court-ordered obligation to provide the information would deal with it. Ambushing her with the knowledge at the time most advantageous to him is always better. (It's such sneaky shit that probably caused one of the above commenters to note his lack of good past experiences with lawyers.)

I like it very much. I know that life can get into the way of fun. So don't worry if you can't keep up "production" to the satisfaction of some reader. I go for quality over quantity every time. As long as you don't abandon the story totally all is good.

I really like the development of Bill. I can fully understand why he wants to be at the gym. In his own mind he needs to be a full man, able to defend his territory. I doesn't matter if he never fights anyone. It's a self image thing. He went through a fight that showed he was not able to hold his own. He needs to know, sometime in the future, that he can. I think Deb's rant is hilarious. She is supposed to be a smart person, no? She is the one who created all the problems and she was pretty vicious and cold about it. I won't claim he was a great husband. He was working too hard, etc. But instead of working on that she chose to abandon their marriage and in the end stick it in his face. Then it's "Can't we be civil?". HA! In fact, after the fight, he has left her alone. Why would he want or need to talk with her? Even the phone conversation was fairly civil but blunt and firm. He described her behavior accurately and the pain it caused him. She just doesn't want to hear about it. She says they will have to talk someday. Why? Unless it's about the kids, what do they need to talk about. The lawyers can work out the divorce details. All Deb is trying to do is deal with her building guilt. It is interesting to see this develop. Your writing makes it vivid even though the story doesn't move forward very quickly. So far so good.

posting more chapters. While in many ways you are still in the expository mode what with inserting new characters and telling backstories for them, I was happy to see the wife back in the picture, so to speak. So like a couple other commentors, why has his divorce lawyer not gotten an injunction baring Doug from the house or at least the bed. She said she was sorry, but did not apologize for that. And her list was too short. It should have begun with, "I am sorry we did not talk before I started cheating on you and cause all this heartache." I would like to see how the kids are really feeling. To be honest, I suspect they took him for granted and even after his conversation with his son, I am not sure they really appreciate what he did for them. SHe really is benefiting from this separation far more than he is. And clearly, has no idea how much she has mentally and emotionally injured him. She has not tried to understand him at all. When ever she thinks about him, it is terms of her own ego, her own needs. She still has no concern in her heart for what she has done. Flashes of guilt, selfishness, yes, all that. She is sailing denial. But it is hard to sympathize with her and in fact not be disgusted by her actions.

Maybe this is unfair, since the story is being told from the husbands point of view and so sympathy for his feelings and agony is easy here, but you are in many ways making her to be worse and worse as you present her. I do not know if you want to build sympathy for her, but if you are, she needs to have her eyes opened to what she did: maybe her kids showing some love for him and disgust for her; maybe seeing him with his bosses main squeeze one night after a few weeks in the gym and new clothes; maybe catching doug cheating on her with some sweet little coed. Oh, I like that one. If you have plans to reunite them, you have created a chasm between them that looks impossible to cross especially with Doug in the bed he bought, and Doug breaking stuff he bought.

I wonder if there is someone out there who has some sympathy for her and can rationalize a way to make her likable.

Have a life, but keep your imagination rich and keep your fingers on that keyboard. Great writing so far.

Don't bring Bill and Debbie together ever again. Any person who walks out on and abandon their unsuspecting spouse like this Debbie character over such a trivial matter like sex and a million other unjustifiable reasons desrves only the street. Debbie could be treated as the role model that married women should never be encouraged to follow.

He is better off without the bitch.

I just hope Bill is getting in shape for himself and learning to fight for his own empowerment, because if this is all about fighting for some faithless "Bee-Yotch" who decides he is a little mundane, and then decides to fling with the available eye candy, I am probably not going to enjoy the ending very much. The only difference between her mid life crisis and a guys mid life crisis is that she stupidly convinced herself that she is in love with abs boy. I hope Bill stays with his plan to get on with his life, and laugh, and laugh, and laugh, some more when the silly cow gets her head out of her twat and decides the new and improved buffed up Bill is what she wants to get back with. Anybody (male or female) who claims to be your life partner, soul mate, spouse, whatever, does not develop a wondering eye then expect for you to fight for them back. That is not the quality person you want to have watching your back, or sharing your life with.

DQS amazes me even more in this posting than in his previous ones. He has a great ability to feel and to express the emotions that Debbie and Bill feel e.g., in their phone conversation. Debbie's mother told Bill that her daughter was just having a fling and really loved him. Well it seems now that Debbie is having a fling and does love Bill, this despite her pronouncement that she no longer loves him. Debbie is beautiful, Bill has not paid enough attention to her beauty with his devotion to his work. The affair with Doug was her way of showing that if Bill wouldn't give her the attention and respect she deserved, she would replace him with the younger, physically superior Doug, her teaching and research assistant. I think that Debbie is now starting to change, for the better, to who she really is. It's about time. She's approaching forty. In her heart and in the silent recesses of her mind she is beginning to come to the realization that she does truly love Bill much as she did early in their marriage. I can hardly wait to read the next installment of the story. RAG

I forgot to mention that Bill needs to start reconnecting with his children. I know that he had one talk with his son, but that is not enough in a month. That all needs to change and he needs to spend time with his children for them and him.

Also I reiterate that it is better for Bill to spend the time making himself, dead dog tired in a gym than drinking his life and career away. As for learning to Box. I hope his mentor teaches him to fight and not box. There is a difference. At least enough to feel confident in himself. He might not whip any ones ass, but they will have to bring thier lunch box to whip his and get hurt too.

Longer chapters would be great, but I will take it as DQ can get them written and submitted.

Nice character and plot development. While I can enjoy longer stories, waiting for the chapters as they are written can be difficult. Godspeed on that.

As for Bill: I think he is learning to fight so that he can defend himself, not win the woman who was his wife. I think she will come to realize that she should have fought for her husband and the survival of her marriage, instead of letting it slowly die away. And the 'other man'? I can see him as the seducer, introduced into the situation by the rich man in order to break up the family. In that way, rich man gets his revenge without worrying about the death pact.

A good work so far, and I look forward to the next chapter.

I agree, very good character development. Can feel emotions and understand thoughts. Looking forward to future chapters

Sorry you're under pressure from us readers for more. Your fault for being so bad! I know the story, ideas, and the characters are 'yours', I keep wondering if you will dissappoint and not develop the story the way I want you to. But everytime I get to read your stuff it's great! No complaints! Just more and not too slow in submitting them. Thanks, once again.

how does a highly respected.... well known.... DA with a rep for exceptional LEGAL skill ....and integrity ....

let the wife slap HIM with a RESTRAINING order while she fucks the other guy in HIS home with the kids around ??!?!!??!?!?!?

but Bill this supposed cracker jack DA cannot seem to

1) recall that ...."oh yeah I am attorney too..."

2) and that he would have NO problem at all getting HER restraining order lifted

3) getting a Much stronger restraining order on her

Bueller? Bueller ???

Lke I said in chapter 1 Bill sems more and more like the DA of candy land

Harry got aggravated by this comment: "In contrast to what some are saying, it's clear she loves Bill." I agree, no matter how much Harry says otherwise. The key issue is that many readers and commentators want to say: Debbie does X! This proves she cannot love Bill." Sorry, that is just too simplistic. Love is only one of many emotions in play here, and they can express themselves side by side. For Debbie, there is sadness, lust, excitement, anger (righteous and otherwise), a desire for revenge, etc., amidst a multitude of feelings. Thus, we can love and hate someone at the same time (I know, I have felt that. Have you felt that..?). Also, how many of us have experienced (either giver or receiver) that weird experience of someone COMPARTMENTALIZING their feelings and dishing that aspect of feeling out to or against us; almost as if picking and choosing what they wish to express? If this sounds far-fetched to you, consider this case: A parent dealing with their child who is being deliberately (or not) provocative. Have you ever considered the possibility that a parent, exhausted from caring for a screaming infant can both love and hate their child at the same time? That in a fit of rage, shake it (Amber in this story) to death; then feel tremendous remorse when the rage has ended that they have killed someone that they love?

So, what does Harry want us to agree to as a definition of "love" in this circumstance? Josephus' definition? Something else? And even if we do get to agree, can he (and us) entertain the possibility that since we are complex creatures, we can have complex sets of emotion that combine in many different ways? And that will thus express themselves in actions that do not look like "love," but perhaps love (much diminished perhaps) combined with other emotions?

Thus, when Debbie calls Bill, it is still an act of love (as it is also an act of shameless self-aggrandisement and self-justification). She may not love Bill "sexually" but, she still has feeling for him. I do get a sense of care (however diminished). We don't yet have a clear idea of what that feeling entails, but it is based on history--some good, some bad. They were married for 20 years and had 2 kids. They faced challenges and successes together. That matters. You don't get rid of that in a couple of months. It has to be concretely lived through, not just intellectually grasped.

One thing about Bill. It is really clear that he doesn't really understand human emotion; his are not very nuanced, and, he doesn't get other folks emotions either. At the moment, it is understandable; it is a tremendous shock that he has gone through. Yet, this problem is a long standing one for Bill. The author has made it very clear that Bill has also been unfaithful in his own way for a long long time. This point was astutely made in an earlier post (sorry for forgetting who), when the commentator noted that Bill had been emotionally (and physically) unavailable for a long time. We don't know why that was so, but it is true (perhaps the story will flesh out the disintegration of this couple and family). I am sorry, but a major cause of divorce in this country is for exactly the reasons that Bill is getting divorced. Not because of Doug (who is a symptom) but because of the neglect (whose full responsibility to be determined...). When commentators state that Debbie should have talked to Bill, I agree with their sentiments. But the observation goes both ways--why didn't Bill talk to his wife? And about the kids--sorry, their poor behaviour suggests a lack of guidance on the part of both parents. This is a real failing of Bill's, and one he hasn't owned up to as yet. He may be "happy, fat, and dumb, but maybe he should have wised up to his own behavioural issue a long time ago. His son doesn't remember a trip when he was five? How many trips did Bill take his son on? Did Bill remember it so well, because they were so rare?

Another observation on Bill's emotional isolation. Chris van Horn is a deplorable man. Yet, I feel pretty certain that unless he is "pure evil" incarnate, Mr. van Horn is completely devastated by his own actions (killing his own child). Here is Bill, fresh from losing it with Doug in a set of fisticuffs, with personal experience of what rage might be and how it can come to guide one's actions (which could have led to really bad repercussions career wise for Bill) unwisely, saying: "I glanced over at Van Horn. He met my eyes for a moment and dropped them. He was fighting for his life, but for the life of me I couldn't understand how he could live another day with the memory of that small limp body in his hands." The answer is--with great difficulty I suspect. I can imagine CvH being a complete guilt-ridden mess, who might actually embrace his prison sentence as a means partially to exculpate the guilt he feels. Yet, Bill doesn't even consider that after he is done with the case, or even its connection to his own circumstances. It is just a way to make himself feel better about his disintegrated life, and to score moral points in "safeguarding society (yet, it is OK to look to hurt someone with a low blow, in a fight he chose to start...). Yep, the author is going to have to tead carefully, to help us stay sympathetic to Bill. Question: How much of his ruthlessness and single-mindedness spilled over into his family life--or was this compartmentalized to just work--and what impact did it have. How did he and Debbie resolve conflicts before the "great falling out"?

In summary: Love is part of a complex plethora of emotions--especially when dealing with something as catastrophic and stressful as divorce. The way these emotions are shown in this period--"raw", as Debbie would say--are chaotic, and not apt to be nice and neat in appearence. Both individuals have to get a better sense of what love actually entails. Both are going to have to come to terms with the nature of the guilt that they share--because they are both guilty for the death of there marriage.

I really like Carlos' character. Fascinating series. The slut narcissistic soon-to-be-ex just doesn't get it that Bill does something important for the community. Am glad to see Bill getting in shape and learning to fight - something tells me that he's going to need it.

great story, am really engaged with the characters, can't wait for the next chapter.

This genre has gained several new writers of late. They have really raised the bar for everyone else. Winterfoxx, Rehnquist and Q have really improved the reading here. (Castlestone was very promising , but for reasons only he knows at present, he is MIA.) It reminds me of when we had new stories by Longhorn, thecelt, Ohio, Blue, KK, Josephus (and others I cannot quickly name) coming out fairly often. We, the readers, took it for granted. Never again! Readers need to appreciate that we now have writers using considerable talent to entertain us.

Harry has made some solid points. Bill is fearless and powerful in his career, but seems to flounder from indecision at home. That is worse than wrong decisions. His personality seems stronger to the reader than he shows with his family. He takes too much shit from every member of his family, especially for a smart, educated man in a position of power. Some claim the wife still loves him. Of that, I see no proof, nor that ever really did love him. She may have, but I see no evidence of it. If she slipped and had an affair and felt badly, maybe she could still love him. In this story, if she loves Bill, I hate to see what happens to guys she dislikes! She has been cruel to him, to put it mildly.

Now we all saw the gym thing coming as he is a fat, balding white guy with nothing going for him. Many of us writers like to use tough guys, or have the husband get into shape. Readers always love that and probably always will. Now, is it possible the rich Texan mentioned in the story decided to ruin Bill's life legally? Could he have paid Doug to seduce the wife and cause a divorce? That would really be some revenge, wouldn't it??

We readers need to appreciate the really good writers that post here. It's easy to take them for granted and maybe be a little too critical of their work. And HDK you left off your name on the list of awesome writers that post on Lit. so I'll add it!!!

I think onlythelonelylove has wrapped up the story and characters pretty well. There is always so much more under the surface and we, the readers, overlook other explanations for the actions of the characters. I still hanging on for dear life. Thanks for the excellent read!

Excellent as always; but you need to get your priorities straight like withe this whole "life outside of Literotica" nonsense. Your readers come first.

I have to say I agree with you about the restraining order; unfortunately, the use of such has become commonplace as a writers tool in many stories. In order for one to be issued, there needs to be cause shown to the judge: physical abuse, stalking, etc. No judge worth his salt (or his position) would be stupid enough to issue one without justifiable cause, a fact which is quite often glossed over in stories anymore. Nobody ever touches on the fact that judges hold a hearing one to two weeks after issuing a (temporary) restraining order, at which time both the plaintiff and the defendant present their sides in court. Only then can it become longer duration.

It goes right up there with the now standard "Alienation of Affection" lawsuit in stories, when in fact the tort has been abolished in 42 of the 50 states. I won't speak for other countries, but writers in the states need to check details, or we as readers need to accept the fact that common beliefs do not always follow reality.

Still, I am enjoying the story. I know how easy it is for people to pick apart my stories, so I am not about to start on somebody else's unless it really detracts for me.. I think we got a good story going here, and need to encourage the author.

You have made a wondefrully well written beautifully stated post ... which shows that you are

1) another moral relativist that does not Know the difference between SHIT and SHINOOLA.

2) you are bending so far over to reach your own Dick that you probably dont need the CRAFTMATIC ADJUSTED BED to give your self a blowjob.

You state...."Debbie does X! This proves she cannot love Bill." Sorry, that is just too simplistic.."

Dude YOU are the one here who says Debbie has done 1 thing... JUST X.... . To everyone else debbie has done X Y Z and fucked A B and C .

While it is True we are complex creatures and often very deep and conflicted..... ACTIONS and WORDS matter. The COMPARTMENTALZIING excuse is OPRAH psycho bable ... because even IF that is what Debbie has done here... Bills actions ( or neglect) are NOT in anyway justification for her actions.

Either Debbie has a mental issues/ illness or she has a SEVERE character flaw.

Again and again posters like YOU keep trying to slel us Bullshit.

YES Bill has been neglectful. AGREED.

so what? Your premise is fucking absurd

the fact that BILL has made serious mistakes here which lead up to this crisis does not mean ANY action / behavior by Debbie PROVES she STILL loves Bill.

Q E fucking D pal....

I could gush over this but I won't. It is very well written, good plotting and believable characters. It leaves me wanting more which every good story does. I know you have a life but could you put it on hold until this story is finished? :-)) I would be ever so grateful! I will do anything! :-))

Best wishes and regards,

Your #1 Fan

The last 2 sentences - "And once again I managed to escape dreams of Debbie. This gym thing wasn't going to be bad."

He's recovering - up to DQS1 now.

I'm excited about the potential of the story though.

....a must read, as far as I'm concerned. Good enough to capture interest just on the plot alone, forget the recon/retribution conflict which will never be resolved on the pages of a fiction work (at least to anyone's complete satisfaction).Thank-you for taking the time to develop his character in a realistic manner, adding assets to his repertoire which are wholly believable and make for intriguing plot possibilities.

....While Harry has outdone himself with his latest string of cogent, seemingly accurate analysis this debate over whether she has any love for Bill is fucking ignorant. By the way, what's wrong with a deeper, nuanced interpretation of morality? Harry, you wanna make a case for moral absolutism, try it with me. You will not win because there is no quantifiable expression of this in the known universe. As if Human beings even had the intellectual capacity to factually assess this. Judging from this universe, I see no evidence that the creator left any compass at all to follow.That's why the Euphemism, "Virtue is it's own reward" developed, CAUSE DON"T THINK EVEN GOD IS GOING TO PAT YOU ON THE BACK FOR DOING WHAT YOU THINK IS RIGHT.-as far as love goes, to look at it as the author needing to prove she still had love for him is approaching the conflict ass backward. The prime assumption HAS TO BE that we start from love between the two and then prove it has totally ended.We don't have to prove the primary existence of love, they were together for 20 fucking years.So the question should be, what has she done to prove she has no love for him, not what has she done to prove love. I would submit that she hasn't ruled out some love still held by any of her(albeit disloyal) actions yet.

But I disagree. We do see evidence of Debbie's love and loyalty toward Bill in all chapters so far. DQS is slowly revealing how deeply conflicted Debbie is and has been for some time.

The bulk of Debbie's behavior, stems from her hurt at having been neglected, minimized, put on the back burner and left to cool. Boy was she angry! Here's this drop dead beautiful woman, being pretty much ignored (according to her POV, plus Bill admits to it, and Bill was warned against doing it) by her flabby husband. I think Debbie must have spent many a year jostling her conflicting sense of feeling betrayed as a result of being minimized, and trying to force herself to be a big girl and suck it up. I think maybe, perhaps, that might be why she never confronted Bill with what she wanted/needed from him? (Yes toot that's a question, sort of.)

I think she also sabotaged Bills' relationship with his kids because of her hurt. I bet there isn't a married man out there who hasn't heard from his wife; "You need to spend more time with Bill Jr!" That's what a partnership does. They pick up where the other leaves off. But years of only picking up and getting nothing back can create one pissed off woman!

Then we see the snow globe incident, (By that way DQS, that was brilliant!) which shows two things. One, guilt at what she destroyed, or allowed her boy toy to help destroy. Two, a realization that she deeply loved Bill along with a possible realization that maybe she still does. She is mourning the loss of what she once had, because she loved what she once had.

Not to confuse sympathy for solidarity, her actions remain reprehensible.

I wonder where the women posters fall on this dilemma, does Debbie deserve sympathy for having been neglected by her husband for so long? Do you recognize her attempt to ignore and tamp down her desires in order to keep her marriage complacent? How many can sympathize with Debbie's ire? Not her actions.

All right, hence forth all anonymous posters must state their gender! Umm please.

Glad to see Bill stopped going to the bar and starting to go to the gym. Loved his response to Debbie's call.

Good character development all round.

More chapters, soon please!

i tried to hold this in, after reading this chapter FOR THE THIRD TIME TODAY, i had to weigh in.

YOU ARE ON THE VERGE OF A MASTERPIECE.

i'm not here to critique your portrayal of characters, discern thier motives, or start a flame war with other posters on their observations if i happen to disagree with their statements, I HERE TO SAY THANK YOU FOR THE TALE SO FAR.

more chapters. more surprises. take us on a journey not seen on this site EVER.

until the next chapter my friend, thank you.

This was a terrific chapter. I find it rather amusing to see the different perspectives of readers based on their genders. Examples would be comments by onlythelonelylove and grumpygamby. The former has the usual "no answer" for all the questions on the bio, so I assume it is a woman. The latter freely states her gender in her bio. My point is that both comments seem rather forgiving towards Debbie, whereas comments by most men are much harsher regarding her behavior. Since I'm male, I guess that's why my sympathies are far more with Bill than with Deb. I can't wait to read more, hooked like the others on this site. Personally, I hope there is no reconciliation for two reasons. Firstly, Debbie does not deserve Bill as things now stand, and I don't see how he could ever trust her not to have another fling when she gets the urge. Secondly, Bill will not remain true to himself as pictured should he get back with her. But it's not my story, so my wish does not count. Thanks for writing.

PETE...

First I am an athiest.... so GOD dont enter into it for me.

Second PLEASE keep in mind that several times I have clearly stated BILl... has SOME fault here ... for the events leading UP to the "crisis".

I know someone is going to characterize what I am saying as "throw the bitch out".... but these attempts to show that because she is hurt --even deeply hurt -- becuase Bill worked too Much and ignored her... so therefore ANY action by Devbbie is a twisted for of Love... is just a pile of bullshit

IF debbie is having SOME feelings / doubts about HER actions--- guilt --- that is WHYshe called Bill. That is fine but come on folks Guilt is NOT Love.

why dont folks get that? Debbie is feeling Guilt about what she did... GUILT = LOVE? On what fooking planet?.

Focus on Bill's LAST visual Image of his 'wife' ... its Just after the PUBLIC fight... and both men are hurt. Debbie is craddling / holding the OTHER guy.

How does any man get past that?

....why are you making so much sense these days? Even being an Atheist(I'm agnostic) makes more sense than most of the alternatives. (Granted, I'm tokin' more than ever these days with the whole family checkin' out on me but damn!)-You have a very valid point re: guilt versus love. One big caveat; the author has not yet pushed Deb into such a corner that she couldn't be written in as unveiling love rediscovered on account of guilt. Or real (new,true?) love blossoming out of the introspection that guilt forces on us.Maybe that's a little point author wanted to make along the way, that guilt can inspire,stimulate the introspection necessary for honest self-evaluation.That we, as human beings, haven't yet achieved the level of emotional refinement to love unselfishly.So we can't ever give "true love". Some of what we call "love" is simply SELF INTEREST! My self -interest here is in seeing her undergo half the pain and abandonment he feels, recon or no.

of hearing about bills neglect because of his job.

It is the desire of any real man to provide for and protect his family even to the extent of giving up time which he could spend with his wife and children. It is a natural instinct which is missing in too many of the males of the species at this time.

For Debbie to resent the time missed is understandable, but is no excuse and unforgivable breach of marital harmony not to at least discuss that fact with Bill before pursuing and fucking her paramour.

You continue to add a depth of character to your primary characters. The snow globe description gave us insight into Deb's conflicting feelings. She is not sure what she wants, but is increasing sure that what she has is not it.

The kids being torn between telling their father the truth and obeying the directions of their mother adds another dimension of conflict. I suspect that this become more important in future chapters. Why did he decide to go to a boxing coach and not simply a gym? Is it simply for getting in shape or does he want to kick Doug's ass? Before you answer this, remember getting in shape can be a legitimate idea so that you can go forward with someone else.

HIV is once again lashing out at an author who chooses not to follow his, personal lines. "The bitch must be kicked to the curb - reconciliation is out of the question - there is no shared fault in a marriage failing, etc." While I realize I have paraphrased his words, the content of his writings is accurately summarized, (at least in my opinion).

HIV's statement that ,..."I am not a Christian, I am an atheist" makes me think of the many times that as the great bard said,..."Me thinks he does protest too much." His claims remind me of no-one so much as Jimmy Swagert and the stories about his sessions with a male prostitue. You can carry it on from there is you so choose. We all fail (sin) in our lives. Are tere things I would love to have gone and did differently? Of course!

Out two protagonists are in the same postion. Have they lived a blameless life or are they blameless in his situation - NO! Do each of them regret what they have done - yes and no. Do either of them have any idea of how to proceed effectively - Absolutely not. Does either one of them wish (and perhaps will work for) a different outcome? The author will reveal the answers in due time. DQS - please continue to take the time necessary to bring this to the story it has the potential to be.

I agree with some of what others said. I think he should keep getting in good shape. But as a good lawyer he should file an alienation of affection suit against the man and since he is paying the bills on the house an order keeping him out of the house is in order because of the affect on the children. He could take the children for what she is doing but he won't. I would also like to see he beat on that guy but only if provoked. And last, he should not take her back, the emails need to come out in court, and she needs to learn a hard lesson about what she lost. What sge did was wrong and I would not take her back. Having sex with the kids in the house and them knowing it is plain wrong. And it would be nice if in the next chapter he was seen with that gal from the office. Even if it is only dinner. He needs someone to talk to besides himself.

I was guessing that between the last time he spoke to Deb and the next time, he would have lost 45 pounds, managed to kill a few drug smugglers, and put the city into even better shape than he was.... apparently, he works very slowly, doesn't he? <p>

He merely managed to put a few corrupted guys... no, wait, he merely scared the shit out of them by pointing a mighty "Glock" at them and threaten to blow their brains out like Dirty Harry, and they started begging! <p>

But after Deb fucked her stud Doug --- which is always in Bill's mind, even as he trains with Carlos in the latter's gym! --- and commented how much Doug dump in her vagina, Deb called him and said, <p>

"You know, Bill, don't be an asshole... I know I don't love you any more and despite all the MISUNDERSTANDING we had, over, my colleague Doug, you and I still have to be civilized to each other, for our two children's sake, you know? Somehow, sometime, we have to meet and talk, when Doug and I could find time off from out teaching job... I will call you again, when I have more time, but I'm just calling you now to tell you you and I will have to talk, when I have more time, when Doug and I find more time." <p>

"You know, Deb, I told you I don't have time right now, okay? Why are you calling me, making me think while you fuck a YOUNG STUD in our marriage bed, which you kicked me out... with me sleeping in some rented little room in a hotel.... why are you torturing me calling me about nothing, if the two kids aren't sick or anything? I feel so bad and sad and angry at you, you know, Deb? You just kicked me out like that, saying you didn't love me any more and now, you're sleeping with a YOUNG STUD in our home, in our marriage bed... I am so hurt... so don't call me again, unless the kids are sick, okay?"

LOL... the idiocy of dialogues and "thinking" in Bill's the Ass Dist Attorney's head... they're just mind boggling.

I hope you stop back and read this -your post contained recap snippets, unresolved musings and (yawn) another dumb attempt to put Harry in a box.Is there anything useful you have to say? I'm not trying to stick up for Harry here, he don't need my help. I am sticking up for any one (reader or author) who has demonstrated even a minutiae of eclecticism in their postings. You bastards that try to typecast a posters validity away are the very fucking idiots you profess to hate.

Strange like hell this story.And Debbie thinks she´s only made a minor mistake.She humiliated him in front of everyone.And she broughts the dude to home!hahaha...

After reading all the inputs you got do far I have to say that I feel that Debbie needs to feel the pain and embarrassment she has given her husband. No matter how much he worked she shouuld have talked to him about it. He was providing for his family and I was in the same situation. My wife and I talked and we made the adjustments we needed. She cheated on him, not the other way around. I would not like to see him back with her because how could he trust her. If an important case comes up that really needs his attention she would be off screwing someone again. And I agree with the others. She called him out of guilt. Not love. She knows she made a mistake when the glass globe broke. But what did she do, ask her new lover to snuggle with her. Yeah, that's love all right. And the husband needs to be in contact with his kids no matter what but he doesn't need to talk to her except when necessary and that can be done through lawyers or phone calls, or emails she seems to like to use. And her new boyfriend, I think he needs a little lesson too, and not a physical one. The university should never put up with that kind of behavior being known. He does not have tenior and she does. I do want to see hre husband find his way to a better place. I can see he is a good man. He knows people better than some of the readers here stated. And yes, he let his family get away with murder and probably as a way to compensate for being tough at work. He needs to provide that same focus on getting tough with her.

who, like all bullies, has his head so far up the ass of the man above him he can't see for shit(must be uncomfortable no, Harry? Even embarrassing). My fantasy is to have two minutes in a room with him alone. I'd fuck him up good. Nasty, sad little cunt.

GrampyGamby, you asked — Do women feel sympathy for Debbie?

And added — I wonder where the women posters fall on this dilemma, does Debbie deserve sympathy for having been neglected by her husband for so long? Do you recognize her attempt to ignore and tamp down her desires in order to keep her marriage complacent? How many can sympathize with Debbie's ire? Not her actions.

*-*-*

I for one do feel sympathy for Debbie, yes, she deserve sympathy for having being neglected by her husband for so long, BUT NOT for her cheating on Bill. On a personal note — My parents faced a similar situation, my mom was a schoolteacher, and after my birth she gave up her job. But as my father’s business started to grow — most of the times he was away on business trips. Many times my parents had arguments, but it always ended with my father saying — “I’m doing it for US, not for myself.”

Bill, of course is neglecting his wife and giving most of his time to his work. But isn’t Debbie getting “benefits” from it, I mean a good lifestyle. When you read a story the “KEY” is to keep yourself in the shoes of the characters. Suppose, GrampyGamby, you are Bill, you work hard, and later you come to know that your wife is having an affair with a younger colleague of hers, what will be your reaction? Think from a male’s point-of-view (I’m 20 year old female, by the way) But I may forgive and forget Debbie for her action

About the globe scene — If I’ve to interpret it — Debbie is feeling GUILTY for her actions, but she’s not ready to accept the fact that it’s her that done the damage, and not Bill. The snow globe –(the marriage), though broken by Doug, it was Debbie who let him in her life, in the house, and of course in the bed.

Few of the readers have pointed out a very interesting thing (I don’t remember their names, sorry) — Doug being paid by the rich businessman to ruin Bill’s marriage. Kudos guys, it could happen that way. Nice take on the situation.

And of course, Harry in VA. He was bang on target, especially about the “Guilt is not love” and about the restraining orders. Bill should do something about Doug’s “visits” Come on, that’s not hard for him; his connections should come into play.

DQS you have shaken and stirred Literotica.com’s readers and writers. Don’t take your fingers off your keyboard (Just kidding)

~Kelly~

....I can understand the anonymity.When you make statements that violate historical fact(I make two statements in two years in support of Harry and now I'm a sycophant?)-oops! Don't want to get accused by imbeciles of having a brain!-and add to that statements you can't prove (though fuck big guy, if we can hide it from my po (I'm absolutely serious about that part,tough guy)-I'll fucking achingly gladly tell you who to get my email from, and you can see if you have half the reason to kill someone on this planet I do.Cause isn't that what you think you can do? Aren't you so lucky you can hide, huh? I won't. Feedback me invisa-boy,let's really see who's more psycho.I'll give you lot's of references before we jam just in case you wanna reconsider how stupid it is to Physically threaten someone you have no clue about. You stupid fuck, even in the can they'd consider you a loser.

There can be no respect or sympathy for Debbie. She lost any imagined fault and failing on Billy's part when she moved her toy-boy into the family home as the replacement 'father' so shortly after the break up with Billy. It is not a question of 'does she love her husband?', but as a mother 'does she love her children?'. As a father, how could you ever respect or love a woman that was prepared to abuse her children in this way?

"I....just wanted to call and talk for a minute." Damn you Bill, I thought, after hanging up my phone. I was very angry at Bill for not wanting to listen. What a week this has been.

First, I come home early and mistakenly prepare supper not only for the children but also for Bill not realizing he doesn’t live here anymore.

Then, as I’m marking papers, I didn’t realize the loving comfort I use to feel knowing that Bill was in the other room… doing nothing but just being there.

And that party with Doug’s friends. That didn’t go well. All those young people around us making me feel old and making Doug look so ordinary when I thought he was something special. His friends all were in excellent physical shape and so childish showing off their abs to each other… and the girls giggling with “ooos and aahhs”, dawning on me that I acted just like that the first time Doug pulled that stunt in front of us at work. That evening, two of Doug’s friends tried to pick me up at different times when Doug was not around using the same lines Doug used on me at the university. Not a creative bone in their bodies. And the women…bimbos all of them and thinking that these guys think I’m just like them. The sex with Doug was very ordinary that night and although it appeared that Doug’s enthusiasm was not diminished it was very routine. His sounds of sex seemed to interfere with my thoughts of thinking that the children could hear us. Why didn’t I think of that before tonight? I missed Bill at the precise moment Doug speared his orgasm into me. What was that all about?

And the children, God, one thing after another. Bill Jr first comes home all bruised and beaten with a black eye. He wouldn’t tell me what the problem was and why he was fighting. I had to find out from my daughter. I caught Kelly fucking …yes fucking her boyfriend…I say that word now…but never use to… and when I confronted her she casually shrugged her shoulders and told me to my face that she was 16 and wasn’t doing anything different than from what she was hearing Doug and I do most nights. She also stated that at least she wasn’t married. I commented that her dad and I will be divorced in two months. Her response…yea…but you’re still technically married…you could have waited until after the divorce. I momentarily felt ashamed and slapped her violently. She cowered and held her hand to her cheek telling me that Billy was foolish for always fighting defending my slutty reputation. God, what have I done to our family? But it got worse. Kelly went on and told me in so many words that Doug walks around nude with a hard on as if he’s God’s gift to women… that on numerous occasions has made passes at her telling her she’s a younger version of her mother. I simply cried. My sweet little girl. What have I done?

I kicked Doug out and stopped seeing him.

All I wanted was to tell Bill all this but he won’t talk to me.

I agree that the restraining order is very overused in this genre. Moreover, I cannot speak to Florida law on restraining orders, only to Illinois law. As such, this response will be possibly--fuck it, probably--incomplete. Under Illinois law, and Order of Protection, which is what we call them, issues if Debbie can show Bill is harassing, abusing, or intimidating her or otherwise interfering with her personal liberties. Though this sounds minimal, such is not necessarily the case when the OP is challenged by the other side. Up front, the OP can issue on an emergency basis based solely on the plaintiff's petition, and the full hearing to determine whether it becomes plenary--i.e., permanent--is held within 21 days of issuance of the emergency OP.

So could an emergency OP have issued in this case? Probably, based solely on Bill's confrontation of the happy couple in front of hundreds of witnesses. Would it subsequently be upheld in a full hearing? Probably not because there's no evidence Bill actually poses a danger to Debbie and the children--the danger would solely be to Doug.

That's not the end of it, though. Your main point is that Bill, the powerful DA, would challenge and get rid of the OP. If I was representing him, that would never happen. Why? Simple: He'd have to take the stand in a civil action and subject himself to all manner of cross-examination regarding the attack on Doug. Remember, you don't have a consitutional right against self-incrimination in civil proceedings; that right only attaches in criminal proceedings. The bad news for Bill is that any statements he makes in the civil proceeding admitting to the fight can be used against him in the subsequent criminal proceeding, though. It's one thing to have a roomful of witnesses not come forward and demand action. It's another for the top lieutenant of the State's Attorney to appear before a judge and admit to misdemeanor battery. The judge would then be empowered to demand prosecution of Bill. So no, he would probably allow the OP to remain on a renewable 30-day basis--or be subsequently vacated at the end of the divorce--without admitting or denying the underlying allegations. So do I find his behavior regarding the restraining order/OP believable? Absolutely. I deal with this shit on a weekly basis, and that's how I'd play it if I was representing him.

The issues that aren't raised are the effect the OP would have on him, though. First, the defendants in OPs, at least in Illinois, must surrender all firearms, can get put on no-fly lists with the airlines, and all other manner of nasty shit. It would certainly force him to take a leave of absence from his job. After all, what top State's Attorney with an eye toward the governor's mansion would keep in place a top lieutenant with an undenied allegation of spousal abuse against him? Second, the newspapers would undoubtedly pick up on the OP as its filing was a matter of public record. This can be curtailed by impounding the file, thereby keeping the litigants identities secret. Still, that's not automatically granted if it's contrary to the public interest even if both parties agree.

So the latter two points are inconsistencies, but I can live with them. Hell, I try--and generally fail--to avoid being overly legalistic in my own stories. And to throw these matters into the mix would only interrupt what has been, to my thinking, a smooth flow in an excellent tale.

Did this help?

Vietvet put it best: Bill's job--and unfortunately, most men's jobs by the way we're wired--is to provide for the family. Bill busts his ass at work to provide Debbie and the children with the best life he can. When he comes home from a long day of being the alpha dog, he doesn't want to be the alpha dog any more. He wants to relax and be loved, look around and enjoy what he's seeing. Just because he's a top flight attorney in charge of dozens of others doesn't mean he comes home every night and treats his family the same way he treats opposing counsel and the people working under him. He loves his family and sees no need to treat them like underlings.

I'm a trial attorney, and I've been involved in more nasty cases than I can count. Yet, when I come home at night, I relax, unwind, and let my wife--fondly known as She Who Must Be Obeyed (I stole that from Rumpole of the Bailey)--decide what we'll do. Frankly, after twelve hours of trying to fix other people's problems, I don't have the energy to make every decision and rule the roost with a firm hand. And, because our marriage is one of equals, I furthermore have no right to expect to be able to rule the roost. That's not a marriage, a partnership.

And everyone keeps slamming Bill's failure to keep his children in line. I can only note that they're teenagers. When my children were teenagers, I had to restrain myself from slapping the shit out of them every time they opened their mouths. I just kept remembering what Mark Twain said: "When I was 14 years old, I couldn't believe how dumb my old man was. When I was 21, I couldn't believe how much he'd learned in a mere 7 years."

I have to disagree with Kelly on a few things, and by extension say something to the author >=)

I really hope this isn't the romantic version of "Something to talk about" by Nici.

Regardless though, I think the Author did do various things very well so far and I really applaud him for it.

He put the "husband" on the other side of an issue that normally happens to primarily only women.

Often the husband feels that he's reached a point in his life and he wants some "excitement". Most of the time we call that a mid-life crisis. He wants to feel desirable again. He wants what he believes is the "lust" that has gone missing in a marriage. But most of all, he wants to feel that intense animal attraction that he felt for his wife when they first started dating, but now its for someone else.

But often, like he has, she's changed.

She isn't the same hard bodied 20 year old that she was when they met. Like him she's an older version of who she was when they became a couple, her body has changed (often after children) and she's physically not the young woman she used to be, and the husband often throws her over for a younger model who is similar to what she used to be.

That's exactly what happened here in this story, but in reverse. Anything else is just window dressing and an excuse for the main problem for what I stated above.

But the other point he also made, and I found interesting, (and what I disagree with Kelly about) is that Bill commented rightly that he has been through the good times as well as the bad and she totally threw those out in her consideration to take a younger lover. This is the same thing I've often heard when women comment on their bastard husband who left them for a younger woman.

So far in this story where he thought he was providing for his family and missed that he wasn't meeting all her needs, all his wife had to do was comment "Honey we're disconnecting and we need to also work at saving our marriage". But she didn't.

What the character did was find another person, who she was deeply attracted to, and who was of course deeply interested in her, and she held that same conversation with him she "should" have have with her husband. The conversation that she used to draw closer to her 29 year old lover was the ones she "should" have been having with her husband to draw closer to him. But she didn't and the story made it the husband's fault for missing that. How is it his fault that he didn't know, but the wife could tell her lover? He's not psychic, he doesn't know what's always on her mind.

And Kelly you missed that totally. And in this story the wife didn't give up her life or career for the husband, her career was just as successful as his and just as important. And you can't put yourself in the shoes of her because the author didn't let us now how Bill felt or what she no longer did for him that he used to expect that he gave up to make her happy either. So all we can do is fill in, in "our" mind what she may have stopped doing. We can't assume she was perfectly waiting on him hand and foot until she decided to drop him for her lover.

But for me, the one thing I "hope" (but wont' tell the author how to write his story) is that the author lets him find someone else who finds him worth her time outside of the circle of people he knows.

His wife threw him out instead of trying to work with him. She just want her lover and to feel the lust of a new relationship. If anything the bedroom scene showed that, and for me as a reader doesn't make me feel sorry that the wife is starting to feel a little guilty she screwed her husband over for her lover. For me reflection on her part while in bed with her new lover, isn't something that would save a relationship after she started cheating on me and parading her lover in front of my children as if what she was doing wasn't wrong.

That is not someone I would want to go back to and spend the rest of my life with.

But most of all, I disagree with Kelly for this: There was a story written by a writer on this site named Nici and her story was/is called "Something to talk about".

It follows along the same lines of reasoning of this one. The wife feels the husband isn't worth of her time anymore because he let himself go and she decides to take a lover and feels that because he's no longer the man she married he should let her, and once he works to gets back into shape, and if she feels he attracts her attention again, she' stop spending time with her new lover and take him back. But in the mean time if he tries to divorce her for this she'll take everything he owns.

Nici's reasoning was that the husband should spend all his time at work, then turn around and spend what remaining time at working to keep his wife happy.

My question was this at the time to Nici, and to Kelly now, what is the "wife's" responsibility if husband is expected to provide for the wife/family, keep her visually interested in his looks, sexually satisfied, and reasonably entertained the rest of the time. What exactly is she supposed to be doing all this time? Enjoying it while he does all of this and puts himself into an early grave? Is he not allowed to let some things go while he's trying to provide, or is he supposed to be "super husband" and do everything right? Doesn't she have "some" responsibility to at first "try" and if she fails get drastic instead of just going right into drastic first??

I'm just hoping against hope that this doesn't turn into the romantic version of "Something to talk about". >=(

-Risq

This chapter 2B of DQS story was a relatively short script of about 6430 words excluding preamble and a brief precis of the preceding events.

The 95 comments so far have a total content of over 16,700 words, making each comment an average of 175 words.

This has got to be a record and a proof that our DQS or, Q as some prefer to call him, is a superstar by any criteria. I am not sure if there is any forum out there in the entire web universe that provides this kind of virtually instant feedback to any author (I may be wrong!). Youtube may be the only forum where creative content gets this kind of instant review and feed back, but then it is an entirely different type of art forum.

Creative geniuses like DQS may provide the basis by which this relatively marginalized and "special interest" site could attain the respectability and universal recognition that it rightly deserves.

The war of words and other heated exchanges that this chapter in particular and this story in general has generated is the tribute to the fact that this story is developing into a classic. And that it will continue to be analyzed and dissected by many of able readers, writers and critics. Whereas comments by 5 star writers like HDK and Ohio create a special buzz of their own, interest shown by new heavy weight talent such as Rhenquist and Bobnbobby adds to this phenomenal momentum. The cream on top of course is the intense and passionate commentary by the king of the common folks Harry in VA who gives voice and reasoning to the feelings of hurt and pain felt by the majority of male readership.

This is a story of another high achieving man who is brought down by his personal failure to look after his family and marriage. This emotional tale carries the tide of sympathy towards him at the expense of his wife, who after all, has a highly rewarding and satisfying sex life in addition to retaining the core of the family and all its visible assets. She has, compared to him, very little to moan about and only a convoluted logic presented by couple of commentators seems to remotely bring some semblance of balance and empathy towards her character.

The story has a long way to go and the feedback must have provided an enormous level of satisfaction to the author. I wish however, that the author ignores all suggestions about the future direction of the story and maintains the original intent and integrity of the story.

My heartfelt gratitude, love and respect for this highly deserving author. FZC

You wonderful post about how restraining orders work and the shit storm that would happen if BILL has to testify was BRILLANT.

it was 100% correct

Nothing is wrong with you analysis.

and you STILL 100% missed my point.

THE FIGHT SHOULD OF NEVER OF HAPPENED.... THAT was my main point if you go back to chapter 1feedback !!

what I said .. in chapter 1 ... was that Surely Bill as brillant and smart as he is would KNOW the law just as well as YOU do in Illinois ...

and Bill would also KNOW -- just like you did-- how Bad it would be for HIM... for his boss etc to go to an open setting with hundreds of witness and VIDEO and TV stations and get into and real fist fight with Doug.

The restraining order is a 2nd issue. Sure IF he challnges it he would have to testify and witnesses can be called and the media circus would be a nightmare.

I get that. Bill might just let it go until the ordinary after 14 or 21 days hearing comes up.

Ergo Bills actions in chapter 1 IMO make NO sense... and the MORE his character is fleshed out showing his resourcefulness and smarts the LESS sense the fight scene makes.

Good debate my friend....

How could you like this woman ! Let's think about it for a minute, she had it so bad boo hoo she had a faithful husband who worked his tail off at a important job a nice house and car with 2 physically healthy children plus she went out alone as often as she liked with her husbands full trust. How did she repay him for that trust ? She cheated on him ! How would she like to trade with the woman who's husband drinks his pay check or has a sick child I could go on and on. OK Bill should have taken better care of himself but What do Wedding vows say for better or worse in sickness and health etc. not if you go bald or get fat I don't Love you any more ! I know this is fiction but this happens everyday In the USA the divorce rate is 50 %. another thing the children Mom is acting like a slut in front of the kids so when the daughter does the same who is there to blame ! What is she going to say do as I say not as a do ? my father always used that one I haded it LOL OK I will get off my soap box. Thanks for writing I wish I could do it :)

I meant to bring it up but left it off my already too long comment. <P>

Who would have an ounce of sympathy for Bill if the situation was reversed? If he had gotten hot and heavy with a young female newbie assistant DA he was "mentoring?" If Debbie had been the one to let herself go and put on another 20-30 pounds. If she had been ignoring him because of taking care of her work/the kids/the home? If the young chick had turned him on with that newly discovered lust? If he left her at home to go on dates? If they had done a PDA in front of all his collegues? If he had abandoned his wife and moved in wih her?<P>

Pretty much no one.<P>

Thanks for sharing

Risq hit the nail on the head.